Aeromexico Crash
So how is the strike coming along? Is it going to happen or are they wisely going to skip that.
The captain should have waited 2 months, and he could have flown with his friend many times.
The captain should have waited 2 months, and he could have flown with his friend many times.
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The Mexican DGAC has released a circular effectively prohibiting the use of the jumpseat to pilots of every airline and operator in Mexico citing "safety reasons". Only pilots are the ones affected since it remains open to various airline, maintenance, DGAC, and medical personnel, even air traffic controllers riding as observers amongst others, go figure.
Seems more like a punishment to me.
Such is life in the third world.
Seems more like a punishment to me.
Such is life in the third world.
Last edited by fisher22; 11th Sep 2018 at 16:22.
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Comment from the Mexican aviation portal Vuela.com.mx
link (in Spanish only)
DESMENUZANDO EL CASO DE LOS PILOTOS DEL ACCIDENTE DE DURANGO
La confirmación de anomalías en la actuación de los pilotos del vuelo 2431 de Aeromexico Connect, que se accidentó al intentar despegar del aeropuerto de Durango bajo la furia de una tormenta, detonó una escandalosa bomba cuya onda expansiva ha alcanzado proporciones internacionales, tanto que merece un mayor análisis el papel que cada quien está representado en esta tragedia de interés público y las implicaciones que ya existen para los Pilotos, su Gremio, la Empresa, los Pasajeros y las Autoridades:Los pilotos. No cabe la menor duda que cometieron una falta inadmisible, más allá de que un piloto viajara en la cabina en el lugar conocido como "jump seat" en calidad de pasajero, lo que es práctica habitual, el que el capitán le permitiera tomar los controles para efectuar el despegue (y que el primer oficial le cediera su lugar) es una acción indefendible que se puede calificar desde irresponsable hasta criminal. Los tres cometieron esta falta a sabiendas que era ilegal, porque el "tercer piloto" en cuestión aún no contaba con la certificación para volar ese tipo de avión y aunque con este detalle se ha querido manipular la información, para que quede bien claro: por ley un avión como ese en servicio comercial debe ser tripulado por DOS pilotos debidamente certificados con la capacidad correspondiente. Iniciar el vuelo sin un piloto calificado a los controles hace ilegal la operación y moralmente no se puede desligar de este hecho cualquier cosa que haya pasado después.
Tan grave es este asunto que ya se han desatado toda una serie de cuestionamientos, dentro y fuera de la industria, sobre cuáles pudieron ser las verdaderas razones por las que los pilotos hicieron tal tontería, e incluso si estaban realmente aptos para volar.
Tampoco se ha aclarado si el mentado "tercer piloto" participó en el "briefieng" de prevuelo, revisó los informes meteorológicos o siguió algún procedimiento para realmente ayudar en algo al capitán a operar con seguridad la aeronave, especialmente ante las condiciones climáticas que imperaban, que muchos pilotos y meteorólogos de prestigio que he consultado consideran que aconsejaban extremar las precauciones y hasta postergar el despegue.
El vuelo no empezó al ser golpeados por la microrráfaga, eso fue en parte consecuencia ineludible de todo lo que se hizo desde antes de que se iniciara la carrera de despegue, y los pilotos de este trágico vuelo en vez de cumplir con su deber, rompieron la ley y los procedimientos de seguridad, incluyendo el fundamental protocolo de "cabina estéril".
Dicen las autoridades que ningún piloto hubiera podido salvar el avión de esa tormenta, pero ningún piloto verdaderamente responsable y profesional habría hecho las tonterías que ellos cometieron, deliberadamente, antes de la tragedia...El gremio. Es inevitable que estos acontecimientos estén revolviendo las entrañas de la comunidad đe pilotos aviadores. Se ha interpretado erróneamente que la Asociación Sindical de Pilotos Aviadores (ASPA) tiene la postura de solapar la conducta de estos pilotos, pero en realidad está haciendo lo correcto al defender el debido proceso en su despido por parte de la aerolínea, es nada más un tema laboral y esa es la principal función de un sindicato, tanto pilotos como empresas deben cumplir sus obligaciones. Es el Colegio de Pilotos Aviadores de México, que a mi humilde juicio funciona como un apéndice de ASPA, el que debería tener un papel más definido en este asunto, y es que ni siquiera se han pronunciado oficialmente al respecto con un comunicado, al tiempo que se han mostrado cerca de la investigación como un incómodo juez y parte, representados en el panel de la investigación por pilotos que son empleados de Aeroméxico, mientras que en otros casos no han dudado en apuntar el dedo acusador, especialmente contra la aviación general o las empresas que no están afiliadas a ASPA.
Por otro lado, es una pena que por unos pocos se afecte el prestigio de muchos excelentes y muy profesionales pilotos aviadores, muchos de ellos a los que admiro con gran respeto, pero desafortunadamente esos "pocos" ya se están haciendo demasiados y la lista de incidentes de pilotos indisciplinados ya es preocupante: hay registrados muchos casos de pilotos que no responden a llamados de la torre de control como si se hubieran quedado dormidos, de unos que se enfilan a las pistas equivocadas, de otros que aterrizaron en el aeropuerto equivocado y luego escaparon volviendo a despegar creyendo que nadie se daría cuenta, pasando por el idiota que apagó un motor en pleno vuelo nomás para fanfarronear y muchos otros que juguetean con los aviones para presumir en las redes sociales, sin mencionar a los que se van de parranda en las pernoctas. Esto debe parar, ASPA y el Colegio de Pilotos deben pintar bien la raya entre proteger los derechos de sus agremiados y solapar las fechorías de los irresponsables.
Me precio de contar con la amistad de varios exSecretarios Generales de ASPA y les he reconocido que el sindicato fue un importante garante de la seguridad aérea, pues antes para una empresa tener al sindicato implicaba un costo que valía mucho la pena, pues era en parte un "seguro" del alto nivel de sus pilotos. Hoy lamentablemente los hechos apuntan a que ya no es así y en este sentido creo que ASPA no es "ni el polvo de aquellos lodos".
No puedo creer que se haya tenido la poca sensibilidad, al día siguiente de que se dieron los avances preliminares del accidente, de publicar la convocatoria para contratar 28 nuevos copilotos justamente para Aeroméxico Connect, pidiendo como requisitos 18 años de edad y 250 horas totales de vuelo, cuando saben perfectamente que sus pares en Estados Unidos, por ley, no los aceptan con menos de 21 años y 1,500 horas de vuelo, precisamente porque saben la importancia de esa experiencia para garantizar la seguridad aérea en las aerolíneas. En Estados Unidos los sindicatos de pilotos apoyaron y defendieron el aumento de requisitos para poder volar en las aerolíneas, lo que ellos mismos afirman que ha contribuido a disminuir la tasa de accidentes e incidentes; el que en México los reglamentos en la materia sean obsoletos no es impedimento para que el gremio de pilotos asuma su responsabilidad en este problema y apoyen que se exijan mayores requisitos.
Ojalá que puedan reconocer esta situación, dejar la soberbia a un lado y realizar acciones más concretas para garantizar que no lleguen a las cabinas pilotos irresponsables e incapaces, y se enaltezca esta hermosa profesión...La empresa. Aero Litoral SA de CV, parte del Grupo Aeroméxico que opera bajo el nombre comercial de Aeroméxico Connect, enfrenta con este problema su más fuerte crisis. Apenas se celebró el primer aniversario de la asociación del Grupo con Delta Airlines, y de buena fuente sé que los "gringos" están preocupadísimos con las consecuencias que pueda traer esta situación. Si bien Andrés Conesa, presidente del Grupo Aeroméxico, al darse a conocer del actuar de los pilotos los despidió, al momento de esta publicación aún no ha emitido un comunicado con un pronunciamiento oficial hacia la opinión pública, y esto es muy criticable, pues los pasajeros merecen una explicación urgentemente.
Sin embargo, el comunicado interno sobre el despido, que califica con dureza la conducta de los pilotos, deja entrever lo serio del asunto y afirma la importancia de no permitir que se ponga en riesgo el sostén de las 16 mil familias que dependen de Aeroméxico ni la confianza de los 20 millones de pasajeros a los que se deben. Aunque la empresa se perfile como "víctima" de la "violación deliberada de los procedimientos" por parte de los pilotos, el daño ya está hecho y la confianza de los pasajeros ya se puso en riesgo, pues pese al obvio intento de minimizar mediáticamente las faltas de los pilotos y abrir la "caja china" del clima invencible e impredecible como causa directa del accidente, ya hay muchos medios masivos de comunicación que han explicado detalladamente las cosas.
Al Grupo Aeroméxico sólo le queda asumir su responsabilidad y creo que a nivel directivo deberían también rodar cabezas, pues en las áreas de seguridad operacional y capacitación es evidente que se ha fracasado, y para que se recupere la confianza en la empresa deberían contratar a los mejores expertos del mundo para ocupar esos cargos, cueste lo que cueste y "cacarearlo", de otra manera no será fácil sanar las heridas causadas al prestigio de la aerolínea.
Y todavía le falta aguantar el golpe de una tormenta tan fuerte como la que supuestamente tiró su avión: la de las demandas y problemas de seguros, que ya enegrecen las nubes sobre su cabeza...Los pasajeros. Los derechos de los pasajeros es lo primero que se debe proteger. La competencia para las aerolíneas es muy fuerte y sobra decir que el esfuerzo de todos los empleados, en especial de las tripulaciones de vuelo, es fundamental para conservar la preferencia de los clientes. Francamente Aeromexico no anda muy bien, desde hace varios años ha ido decayendo en la preferencia de los pasajeros, basta recordar que en el "ranking" de las 100 mejores aerolíneas del mundo cayó al penoso lugar 99 y con este escándalo de los pilotos del avionazo de Durango seguramente le irá muy mal.
Me pongo como ejemplo y debo confesar que decidí desde hace casi año y medio no volar más por Aeroméxico, debido a la mala experiencia que sufrí en un vuelo a París, en que alguien sustrajo mi equipaje de mano del avión y dejó otra maleta muy similar en su lugar; los sobrecargos se portaron pésimo, totalmente irresponsables y ajenos a la gravedad del asunto, sobre todo porque había alerta terrorista en Europa y era a los pocos días de unos atentados en Londres. Tuve que resolver el problema por mí cuenta (y con la ayuda de la Policía), pues el personal de la aerolínea literalmente huyó de su responsabilidad. Creo que Aeroméxico ha bajado mucho la guardia en cuanto a la calidad del servicio tanto como en seguridad operacional, lo que se ha notado mucho, pero este es un tema que atañe a toda la industria, pues hay otras aerolíneas que más vale que vayan poniendo sus barbas a remojar.
Corresponde a todos el reto de superar esta crisis y cuidar que el personal de vuelo de todas las empresas de aviación, comerciales y privadas, esté a la altura de los niveles de seguridad, eficiencia y servicio de clase mundial. Los pasajeros merecen la tranquilidad de estar seguros de que van en las mejores manos...Las autoridades. ¿Cuáles? Pues la Dirección General de Aeronáutica Civil (DGAC) y su Comisión Investigadora del Accidente, encabezadas por el ingeniero Luis Gerardo Fonseca.
El papel que la DGAC está desempeñando en todo este asunto me parece muy triste y está siendo muy criticado a nivel mundial, lo cual es una vergüenza para nuestro país. Revelar con tal timidez y minusvalorando la participación del tan traído y llevado "tercer piloto" es muy preocupante. Tal pifia podría explicarse con el Principio de Hanlon, donde no se puede atribuir a maldad algo que simplemente es por estupidez, pero la forma en que la DGAC evita señalar que ese avión no debió despegar con tales irregularidades nos deja muchas sospechas, pues parece que están protegiendo ciertos intereses, en vez de señalar los hechos con la fuerza, integridad e imparcialidad que se espera de la Autoridad.
La omisión por parte de dichas autoridades y la empresa de mencionar la existencia del "tercer piloto" desde que sucedió el accidente de Durango (pues dieron los nombres de la tripulación con toda claridad) contribuye a acentuar la ilegalidad de la acción de los pilotos y no se puede alegar que se trataba de una "sesión de habilitación no autorizada", pues este piloto no estaba en ese proceso de su capacitación, y está claro que solo pretendía trasladarse a la Ciudad de México, destino del infortunado vuelo, usando una prestación que dicho sea de paso ya fue restringida por la aerolínea.
Lamentablemente la DGAC ha perdido casi toda su credibilidad, la pobreza con la que se desempeña se balancea entre la incompetencia y la corrupción. Tristemente ya es un "cliché " que cada que hay un accidente aéreo que llega al escrutinio público se descubren irregularidades con las licencias de los pilotos. Por tanto es entendible que ya se cuestione tras bambalinas que los propios inspectores de la DGAC, relacionados con los procesos de certificar como aptos a los pilotos involucrados en este accidente (y muchos otros), pudieran no haber estado debidamente habilitados.
La clara condición de juez y parte de la DGAC en este asunto está alimentando una marea muy escandalosa de especulaciones, supuestas filtraciones y datos sobre los involucrados, que está generando gran preocupación y creo que por bien de la industria aeronáutica todos esos rumores y sospechas deberían ser bien esclarecidos y disipados...La complejidad de este asunto es ya un tema de seguridad y prestigio nacional y considero que debería involucrarse a la Procuraduría General de la República (PGR) para investigar a fondo todos los aspectos que escapan a la competencia de la DGAC y demás partes. Sé de buena fuente que ya hay personas trabajando en una denuncia de esta naturaleza, pues consideran muy importante que se aclare bien si existe corrupción o encubrimiento detrás de este lamentable caso.
Hay muchas cosas que aclarar más allá de lo que pasó al momento de la fatídica "microrráfaga", como qué hicieron los pilotos el día y la noche anterior ¿descansaron bien? ¿Cuáles fueron los resultados de la valoración médica de los pilotos inmediatamente después del accidente? O cómo fue al detalle su capacitación y habilitación como pilotos de Embraer 190. Son puntos muy importantes, no se trata de crucificar a nadie, pero si de acallar los rumores, dar certeza a la opinión pública e identificar problemas que puedan estar amenazando la seguridad aérea y que podrían ameritar la realización de acciones correctivas cuanto antes.Toda esta situación me hace recordar en algo la película "El Vuelo", una historia de ficción donde el personaje interpretado por Denzel Washington es un piloto que enfrenta con gran destreza una situación en vuelo casi imposible de salvar, pero habiendo cometido una grave falta no relacionada directamente con el accidente. Cuando gracias al gran aparato burocrático y legal que lo protege está a punto de escapar de la responsabilidad de su falta, tiene la integridad y el valor moral de decir toda la verdad y afrontar las consecuencias de sus actos con la conciencia limpia. Pero parece que eso solo pasa en las películas...
Saludos
Héctor Dávila.
link (in Spanish only)
DESMENUZANDO EL CASO DE LOS PILOTOS DEL ACCIDENTE DE DURANGO
La confirmación de anomalías en la actuación de los pilotos del vuelo 2431 de Aeromexico Connect, que se accidentó al intentar despegar del aeropuerto de Durango bajo la furia de una tormenta, detonó una escandalosa bomba cuya onda expansiva ha alcanzado proporciones internacionales, tanto que merece un mayor análisis el papel que cada quien está representado en esta tragedia de interés público y las implicaciones que ya existen para los Pilotos, su Gremio, la Empresa, los Pasajeros y las Autoridades:Los pilotos. No cabe la menor duda que cometieron una falta inadmisible, más allá de que un piloto viajara en la cabina en el lugar conocido como "jump seat" en calidad de pasajero, lo que es práctica habitual, el que el capitán le permitiera tomar los controles para efectuar el despegue (y que el primer oficial le cediera su lugar) es una acción indefendible que se puede calificar desde irresponsable hasta criminal. Los tres cometieron esta falta a sabiendas que era ilegal, porque el "tercer piloto" en cuestión aún no contaba con la certificación para volar ese tipo de avión y aunque con este detalle se ha querido manipular la información, para que quede bien claro: por ley un avión como ese en servicio comercial debe ser tripulado por DOS pilotos debidamente certificados con la capacidad correspondiente. Iniciar el vuelo sin un piloto calificado a los controles hace ilegal la operación y moralmente no se puede desligar de este hecho cualquier cosa que haya pasado después.
Tan grave es este asunto que ya se han desatado toda una serie de cuestionamientos, dentro y fuera de la industria, sobre cuáles pudieron ser las verdaderas razones por las que los pilotos hicieron tal tontería, e incluso si estaban realmente aptos para volar.
Tampoco se ha aclarado si el mentado "tercer piloto" participó en el "briefieng" de prevuelo, revisó los informes meteorológicos o siguió algún procedimiento para realmente ayudar en algo al capitán a operar con seguridad la aeronave, especialmente ante las condiciones climáticas que imperaban, que muchos pilotos y meteorólogos de prestigio que he consultado consideran que aconsejaban extremar las precauciones y hasta postergar el despegue.
El vuelo no empezó al ser golpeados por la microrráfaga, eso fue en parte consecuencia ineludible de todo lo que se hizo desde antes de que se iniciara la carrera de despegue, y los pilotos de este trágico vuelo en vez de cumplir con su deber, rompieron la ley y los procedimientos de seguridad, incluyendo el fundamental protocolo de "cabina estéril".
Dicen las autoridades que ningún piloto hubiera podido salvar el avión de esa tormenta, pero ningún piloto verdaderamente responsable y profesional habría hecho las tonterías que ellos cometieron, deliberadamente, antes de la tragedia...El gremio. Es inevitable que estos acontecimientos estén revolviendo las entrañas de la comunidad đe pilotos aviadores. Se ha interpretado erróneamente que la Asociación Sindical de Pilotos Aviadores (ASPA) tiene la postura de solapar la conducta de estos pilotos, pero en realidad está haciendo lo correcto al defender el debido proceso en su despido por parte de la aerolínea, es nada más un tema laboral y esa es la principal función de un sindicato, tanto pilotos como empresas deben cumplir sus obligaciones. Es el Colegio de Pilotos Aviadores de México, que a mi humilde juicio funciona como un apéndice de ASPA, el que debería tener un papel más definido en este asunto, y es que ni siquiera se han pronunciado oficialmente al respecto con un comunicado, al tiempo que se han mostrado cerca de la investigación como un incómodo juez y parte, representados en el panel de la investigación por pilotos que son empleados de Aeroméxico, mientras que en otros casos no han dudado en apuntar el dedo acusador, especialmente contra la aviación general o las empresas que no están afiliadas a ASPA.
Por otro lado, es una pena que por unos pocos se afecte el prestigio de muchos excelentes y muy profesionales pilotos aviadores, muchos de ellos a los que admiro con gran respeto, pero desafortunadamente esos "pocos" ya se están haciendo demasiados y la lista de incidentes de pilotos indisciplinados ya es preocupante: hay registrados muchos casos de pilotos que no responden a llamados de la torre de control como si se hubieran quedado dormidos, de unos que se enfilan a las pistas equivocadas, de otros que aterrizaron en el aeropuerto equivocado y luego escaparon volviendo a despegar creyendo que nadie se daría cuenta, pasando por el idiota que apagó un motor en pleno vuelo nomás para fanfarronear y muchos otros que juguetean con los aviones para presumir en las redes sociales, sin mencionar a los que se van de parranda en las pernoctas. Esto debe parar, ASPA y el Colegio de Pilotos deben pintar bien la raya entre proteger los derechos de sus agremiados y solapar las fechorías de los irresponsables.
Me precio de contar con la amistad de varios exSecretarios Generales de ASPA y les he reconocido que el sindicato fue un importante garante de la seguridad aérea, pues antes para una empresa tener al sindicato implicaba un costo que valía mucho la pena, pues era en parte un "seguro" del alto nivel de sus pilotos. Hoy lamentablemente los hechos apuntan a que ya no es así y en este sentido creo que ASPA no es "ni el polvo de aquellos lodos".
No puedo creer que se haya tenido la poca sensibilidad, al día siguiente de que se dieron los avances preliminares del accidente, de publicar la convocatoria para contratar 28 nuevos copilotos justamente para Aeroméxico Connect, pidiendo como requisitos 18 años de edad y 250 horas totales de vuelo, cuando saben perfectamente que sus pares en Estados Unidos, por ley, no los aceptan con menos de 21 años y 1,500 horas de vuelo, precisamente porque saben la importancia de esa experiencia para garantizar la seguridad aérea en las aerolíneas. En Estados Unidos los sindicatos de pilotos apoyaron y defendieron el aumento de requisitos para poder volar en las aerolíneas, lo que ellos mismos afirman que ha contribuido a disminuir la tasa de accidentes e incidentes; el que en México los reglamentos en la materia sean obsoletos no es impedimento para que el gremio de pilotos asuma su responsabilidad en este problema y apoyen que se exijan mayores requisitos.
Ojalá que puedan reconocer esta situación, dejar la soberbia a un lado y realizar acciones más concretas para garantizar que no lleguen a las cabinas pilotos irresponsables e incapaces, y se enaltezca esta hermosa profesión...La empresa. Aero Litoral SA de CV, parte del Grupo Aeroméxico que opera bajo el nombre comercial de Aeroméxico Connect, enfrenta con este problema su más fuerte crisis. Apenas se celebró el primer aniversario de la asociación del Grupo con Delta Airlines, y de buena fuente sé que los "gringos" están preocupadísimos con las consecuencias que pueda traer esta situación. Si bien Andrés Conesa, presidente del Grupo Aeroméxico, al darse a conocer del actuar de los pilotos los despidió, al momento de esta publicación aún no ha emitido un comunicado con un pronunciamiento oficial hacia la opinión pública, y esto es muy criticable, pues los pasajeros merecen una explicación urgentemente.
Sin embargo, el comunicado interno sobre el despido, que califica con dureza la conducta de los pilotos, deja entrever lo serio del asunto y afirma la importancia de no permitir que se ponga en riesgo el sostén de las 16 mil familias que dependen de Aeroméxico ni la confianza de los 20 millones de pasajeros a los que se deben. Aunque la empresa se perfile como "víctima" de la "violación deliberada de los procedimientos" por parte de los pilotos, el daño ya está hecho y la confianza de los pasajeros ya se puso en riesgo, pues pese al obvio intento de minimizar mediáticamente las faltas de los pilotos y abrir la "caja china" del clima invencible e impredecible como causa directa del accidente, ya hay muchos medios masivos de comunicación que han explicado detalladamente las cosas.
Al Grupo Aeroméxico sólo le queda asumir su responsabilidad y creo que a nivel directivo deberían también rodar cabezas, pues en las áreas de seguridad operacional y capacitación es evidente que se ha fracasado, y para que se recupere la confianza en la empresa deberían contratar a los mejores expertos del mundo para ocupar esos cargos, cueste lo que cueste y "cacarearlo", de otra manera no será fácil sanar las heridas causadas al prestigio de la aerolínea.
Y todavía le falta aguantar el golpe de una tormenta tan fuerte como la que supuestamente tiró su avión: la de las demandas y problemas de seguros, que ya enegrecen las nubes sobre su cabeza...Los pasajeros. Los derechos de los pasajeros es lo primero que se debe proteger. La competencia para las aerolíneas es muy fuerte y sobra decir que el esfuerzo de todos los empleados, en especial de las tripulaciones de vuelo, es fundamental para conservar la preferencia de los clientes. Francamente Aeromexico no anda muy bien, desde hace varios años ha ido decayendo en la preferencia de los pasajeros, basta recordar que en el "ranking" de las 100 mejores aerolíneas del mundo cayó al penoso lugar 99 y con este escándalo de los pilotos del avionazo de Durango seguramente le irá muy mal.
Me pongo como ejemplo y debo confesar que decidí desde hace casi año y medio no volar más por Aeroméxico, debido a la mala experiencia que sufrí en un vuelo a París, en que alguien sustrajo mi equipaje de mano del avión y dejó otra maleta muy similar en su lugar; los sobrecargos se portaron pésimo, totalmente irresponsables y ajenos a la gravedad del asunto, sobre todo porque había alerta terrorista en Europa y era a los pocos días de unos atentados en Londres. Tuve que resolver el problema por mí cuenta (y con la ayuda de la Policía), pues el personal de la aerolínea literalmente huyó de su responsabilidad. Creo que Aeroméxico ha bajado mucho la guardia en cuanto a la calidad del servicio tanto como en seguridad operacional, lo que se ha notado mucho, pero este es un tema que atañe a toda la industria, pues hay otras aerolíneas que más vale que vayan poniendo sus barbas a remojar.
Corresponde a todos el reto de superar esta crisis y cuidar que el personal de vuelo de todas las empresas de aviación, comerciales y privadas, esté a la altura de los niveles de seguridad, eficiencia y servicio de clase mundial. Los pasajeros merecen la tranquilidad de estar seguros de que van en las mejores manos...Las autoridades. ¿Cuáles? Pues la Dirección General de Aeronáutica Civil (DGAC) y su Comisión Investigadora del Accidente, encabezadas por el ingeniero Luis Gerardo Fonseca.
El papel que la DGAC está desempeñando en todo este asunto me parece muy triste y está siendo muy criticado a nivel mundial, lo cual es una vergüenza para nuestro país. Revelar con tal timidez y minusvalorando la participación del tan traído y llevado "tercer piloto" es muy preocupante. Tal pifia podría explicarse con el Principio de Hanlon, donde no se puede atribuir a maldad algo que simplemente es por estupidez, pero la forma en que la DGAC evita señalar que ese avión no debió despegar con tales irregularidades nos deja muchas sospechas, pues parece que están protegiendo ciertos intereses, en vez de señalar los hechos con la fuerza, integridad e imparcialidad que se espera de la Autoridad.
La omisión por parte de dichas autoridades y la empresa de mencionar la existencia del "tercer piloto" desde que sucedió el accidente de Durango (pues dieron los nombres de la tripulación con toda claridad) contribuye a acentuar la ilegalidad de la acción de los pilotos y no se puede alegar que se trataba de una "sesión de habilitación no autorizada", pues este piloto no estaba en ese proceso de su capacitación, y está claro que solo pretendía trasladarse a la Ciudad de México, destino del infortunado vuelo, usando una prestación que dicho sea de paso ya fue restringida por la aerolínea.
Lamentablemente la DGAC ha perdido casi toda su credibilidad, la pobreza con la que se desempeña se balancea entre la incompetencia y la corrupción. Tristemente ya es un "cliché " que cada que hay un accidente aéreo que llega al escrutinio público se descubren irregularidades con las licencias de los pilotos. Por tanto es entendible que ya se cuestione tras bambalinas que los propios inspectores de la DGAC, relacionados con los procesos de certificar como aptos a los pilotos involucrados en este accidente (y muchos otros), pudieran no haber estado debidamente habilitados.
La clara condición de juez y parte de la DGAC en este asunto está alimentando una marea muy escandalosa de especulaciones, supuestas filtraciones y datos sobre los involucrados, que está generando gran preocupación y creo que por bien de la industria aeronáutica todos esos rumores y sospechas deberían ser bien esclarecidos y disipados...La complejidad de este asunto es ya un tema de seguridad y prestigio nacional y considero que debería involucrarse a la Procuraduría General de la República (PGR) para investigar a fondo todos los aspectos que escapan a la competencia de la DGAC y demás partes. Sé de buena fuente que ya hay personas trabajando en una denuncia de esta naturaleza, pues consideran muy importante que se aclare bien si existe corrupción o encubrimiento detrás de este lamentable caso.
Hay muchas cosas que aclarar más allá de lo que pasó al momento de la fatídica "microrráfaga", como qué hicieron los pilotos el día y la noche anterior ¿descansaron bien? ¿Cuáles fueron los resultados de la valoración médica de los pilotos inmediatamente después del accidente? O cómo fue al detalle su capacitación y habilitación como pilotos de Embraer 190. Son puntos muy importantes, no se trata de crucificar a nadie, pero si de acallar los rumores, dar certeza a la opinión pública e identificar problemas que puedan estar amenazando la seguridad aérea y que podrían ameritar la realización de acciones correctivas cuanto antes.Toda esta situación me hace recordar en algo la película "El Vuelo", una historia de ficción donde el personaje interpretado por Denzel Washington es un piloto que enfrenta con gran destreza una situación en vuelo casi imposible de salvar, pero habiendo cometido una grave falta no relacionada directamente con el accidente. Cuando gracias al gran aparato burocrático y legal que lo protege está a punto de escapar de la responsabilidad de su falta, tiene la integridad y el valor moral de decir toda la verdad y afrontar las consecuencias de sus actos con la conciencia limpia. Pero parece que eso solo pasa en las películas...
Saludos
Héctor Dávila.
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From Google Translate (this link retains page formatting and is easier to read). Don't take the AI translation too literally.
The confirmation of anomalies in the performance of the pilots of Aeromexico Connect Flight 2431, who crashed while trying to take off from Durango Airport under the fury of a storm, triggered a scandalous bomb whose expansive wave has reached international proportions, so much that it deserves more analysis the role that each one is represented in this tragedy of public interest and the implications that already exist for the Pilots, their Guild, the Company, the Passengers and the Authorities:
The pilots. There is no doubt that they committed an inadmissible fault, beyond a pilot traveling in the cabin in the place known as "jump seat" as a passenger, which is common practice, which the captain allowed him to take the controls to carry out the takeoff (and that the first officer gave him his place) is an indefensible action that can be qualified from irresponsible to criminal. All three committed this fault knowing that it was illegal, because the "third pilot" in question still did not have the certification to fly that type of plane and although with this detail they wanted to manipulate the information, so that it is very clear: an airplane such as that in commercial service must be manned by TWO duly certified pilots with the corresponding capacity. Starting the flight without a qualified pilot to the controls makes the operation illegal and morally you can not separate from this fact anything that happened afterwards.
So serious is this matter that a whole series of questions have already been unleashed, inside and outside the industry, about what could be the real reasons why the pilots did such nonsense, and even if they were really fit to fly.
Nor has it been clarified if the aforementioned "third pilot" participated in the preflight briefing, reviewed the weather reports or followed any procedure to really help the captain to operate the aircraft safely, especially given the weather conditions that prevailed, that many prestigious pilots and meteorologists that I have consulted consider that they advised extreme precautions and even postpone take-off.
The flight did not begin to be hit by the microburst, that was partly unavoidable consequence of everything that was done before the start of the takeoff race, and the pilots of this tragic flight instead of fulfilling their duty, broke the law and safety procedures, including the fundamental protocol of "sterile cabin".
The authorities say that no pilot could have saved the plane from that storm, but no truly responsible and professional pilot would have done the nonsense that they committed, deliberately, before the tragedy ...
The guild It is inevitable that these events are stirring the bowels of the community - pilots aviators. It has been misinterpreted that the Association of Airline Pilots (ASPA) has the position to overlap the conduct of these pilots, but in fact is doing the right thing to defend due process in his dismissal by the airline, is nothing more than a labor issue and that is the main function of a union, both pilots and companies must fulfill their obligations. It is the Association of Pilots Aviators of Mexico, which in my humble opinion works as an appendix of ASPA, which should have a more defined role in this matter, and is that they have not even officially pronounced about it with a statement, at the same time who have shown themselves close to the investigation as an uncomfortable judge and part, represented in the investigation panel by pilots who are employees of Aeromexico, while in other cases they have not hesitated to point the finger, especially against general aviation or Companies that are not affiliated with ASPA.
On the other hand, it is a pity that for a few the prestige of many excellent and very professional aviator pilots is affected, many of whom I admire with great respect, but unfortunately those "few" are already becoming too many and the list of incidents of undisciplined pilots is already worrisome: there are many cases of pilots who do not respond to calls from the control tower as if they had fallen asleep, some who are heading to the wrong tracks, others who landed at the wrong airport and then escaped taking off again believing that no one would notice, passing by the idiot who turned off a motor in mid-flight just to brag and many others who play with the planes to show off on social networks, not to mention those who go on a spree in the overnight stays. This must stop, ASPA and the Pilots Association must paint the line well between protecting the rights of their members and overlapping the misdeeds of the irresponsible.
I value the friendship of several former General Secretaries of ASPA and I have recognized that the union was an important guarantor of aviation security, because before for a company having the union involved a cost that was very worthwhile, as it was partly a "sure" of the high level of its pilots. Unfortunately today, the facts point to the fact that this is no longer the case and in this sense I believe that ASPA is not "nor the dust of those muds".
I can not believe that there was little sensitivity, the day after the preliminary progress of the accident occurred, of publishing the call to hire 28 new co-drivers just for Aeroméxico Connect, requesting as requirements 18 years of age and 250 total hours of flight, when they know perfectly well that their peers in the United States, by law, do not accept them with less than 21 years and 1,500 flight hours, precisely because they know the importance of that experience to ensure airline safety on the airlines. In the United States, the pilots' unions supported and defended the increase of requirements to be able to fly in the airlines, which they affirm has contributed to reduce the accident and incident rate; that in Mexico the regulations on the matter are obsolete is not an impediment for the guild of pilots to assume their responsibility in this problem and support that greater requirements are demanded.
Hopefully they can recognize this situation, leave pride aside and take more concrete actions to ensure that they do not reach the irresponsible and incapable pilot booths, and this beautiful profession is extolled ...
The company. Aero Litoral SA de CV, part of the Aeromexico Group that operates under the commercial name of Aeroméxico Connect, faces its biggest crisis with this problem. The first anniversary of the Group's partnership with Delta Airlines was just celebrated, and I know from good sources that the "gringos" are very concerned about the consequences that this situation could bring. Although Andrés Conesa, president of the Aeroméxico Group, when he made himself known about the pilots' actions, he dismissed them, at the time of this publication he has not yet issued a statement with an official statement to the public opinion, and this is very criticized, since passengers deserve an explanation urgently.
However, the internal statement on dismissal, which harshly qualifies the conduct of the pilots, hints at the seriousness of the matter and affirms the importance of not allowing the support of the 16 thousand families that depend on Aeromexico to be put at risk. the confidence of the 20 million passengers who are owed. Although the company is seen as a "victim" of the "deliberate violation of procedures" by the pilots, the damage has already been done and the trust of the passengers has already been put at risk, despite the obvious attempt to minimize the media. lack of pilots and open the "Chinese box" of the invincible and unpredictable climate as a direct cause of the accident, there are already many mass media that have explained things in detail.
The Aeromexico Group only has to assume its responsibility and I believe that managers should also roll heads, since in the areas of operational safety and training it is evident that it has failed, and in order to regain confidence in the company they should hire the The best experts in the world to occupy those positions, no matter what the cost and "cackle", otherwise it will not be easy to heal the wounds caused to the prestige of the airline.
And he still has to endure the blow of a storm as strong as the one that supposedly threw his plane: that of the lawsuits and insurance problems, which already clouds the clouds above his head ...
The passengers. The rights of passengers is the first thing that must be protected. The competition for the airlines is very strong and it goes without saying that the effort of all employees, especially flight crews, is essential to preserve the preference of customers.Frankly Aeromexico is not very good, for several years has been declining in the preference of passengers, just remember that in the "ranking" of the 100 best airlines in the world fell to the painful place 99 and with this scandal of the pilots of the plane Durango will surely go very wrong.
I set myself as an example and I must confess that I decided for almost a year and a half not to fly more for Aeromexico, due to the bad experience I suffered on a flight to Paris, when someone took my hand luggage from the plane and left another suitcase very similar instead;the flight attendants behaved badly, totally irresponsible and unrelated to the seriousness of the matter, especially since there was a terrorist alert in Europe and it was a few days after some attacks in London. I had to solve the problem on my own (and with the help of the Police), because the airline staff literally fled from their responsibility. I think that Aeroméxico has lowered its guard in terms of quality of service as well as operational safety, which has been noted, but this is an issue that concerns the entire industry, as there are other airlines that are better placed his beards to soak.
It is up to all of us to face the challenge of overcoming this crisis and take care that the flight personnel of all aviation companies, commercial and private, are up to the standards of safety, efficiency and world class service. The passengers deserve the peace of mind to be sure that they are in the best hands ...
The authorities. Which? Well, the General Directorate of Civil Aeronautics (DGAC) and its Investigation Commission of the Accident, headed by engineer Luis Gerardo Fonseca.
The role that the DGAC is playing in this whole issue seems very sad to me and is being criticized at a global level, which is a shame for our country. Revealing with such shyness and underestimating the participation of the so-called "third pilot" brought and taken is very worrying. Such a blunder could be explained by Hanlon's Principle, where something that is simply stupid can not be attributed to evil, but the way in which the DGAC avoids pointing out that this plane should not have taken off with such irregularities leaves us with many suspicions, since it seems that they are protecting certain interests, instead of pointing out the facts with the force, integrity and impartiality expected of the Authority.
The omission on the part of said authorities and the company to mention the existence of the "third pilot" since the accident in Durango (since they gave the names of the crew with all clarity) contributes to accentuate the illegality of the action of the pilots and it can not be alleged that it was an "unauthorized habilitation session", since this pilot was not in the process of his training, and it is clear that he only intended to move to Mexico City, destination of the unfortunate flight, using a service That by the way was already restricted by the airline.
Unfortunately, the DGAC has lost almost all its credibility, the poverty with which it works is balanced between incompetence and corruption. Sadly it is already a "cliché" that every time there is an air accident that reaches public scrutiny, irregularities are discovered with the pilots' licenses. Therefore it is understandable that it is already questioned behind the scenes that the inspectors of the DGAC, related to the processes of certifying as fit the pilots involved in this accident (and many others), may not have been properly qualified.
The clear condition of judge and part of the DGAC in this matter is fueling a very scandalous tide of speculation, alleged leaks and data on those involved, which is generating great concern and I believe that for the sake of the aviation industry all these rumors and suspicions should be well clarified and dissipated ...
The complexity of this issue is already a matter of national security and prestige and I believe that the Attorney General's Office (PGR) should be involved in thoroughly investigating all aspects beyond the competence of the DGAC and other parties. I know from a good source that there are already people working on a complaint of this nature, as they consider it very important to clarify well if there is corruption or cover-up behind this unfortunate case.
There are many things to clarify beyond what happened at the time of the fateful "microburst", as what pilots did the previous day and night did they rest well? What were the results of the medical assessment of the pilots immediately after the accident? Or how he went to detail his training and qualification as Embraer 190 pilots. They are very important points, it is not about crucifying anyone, but about quieting the rumors, giving certainty to the public opinion and identifying problems that may be threatening the security and that could warrant the implementation of corrective actions as soon as possible.
This whole situation reminds me of the movie "The Flight", a story of fiction where the character played by Denzel Washington is a pilot who faces with great skill a situation in flight almost impossible to save, but having committed a serious fault directly related to the accident. When, thanks to the great bureaucratic and legal apparatus that protects it, it is about to escape responsibility for its lack, it has the integrity and moral courage to speak the whole truth and face the consequences of its actions with a clear conscience. But it seems that only happens in movies ...
regards
Héctor Dávila.
The pilots. There is no doubt that they committed an inadmissible fault, beyond a pilot traveling in the cabin in the place known as "jump seat" as a passenger, which is common practice, which the captain allowed him to take the controls to carry out the takeoff (and that the first officer gave him his place) is an indefensible action that can be qualified from irresponsible to criminal. All three committed this fault knowing that it was illegal, because the "third pilot" in question still did not have the certification to fly that type of plane and although with this detail they wanted to manipulate the information, so that it is very clear: an airplane such as that in commercial service must be manned by TWO duly certified pilots with the corresponding capacity. Starting the flight without a qualified pilot to the controls makes the operation illegal and morally you can not separate from this fact anything that happened afterwards.
So serious is this matter that a whole series of questions have already been unleashed, inside and outside the industry, about what could be the real reasons why the pilots did such nonsense, and even if they were really fit to fly.
Nor has it been clarified if the aforementioned "third pilot" participated in the preflight briefing, reviewed the weather reports or followed any procedure to really help the captain to operate the aircraft safely, especially given the weather conditions that prevailed, that many prestigious pilots and meteorologists that I have consulted consider that they advised extreme precautions and even postpone take-off.
The flight did not begin to be hit by the microburst, that was partly unavoidable consequence of everything that was done before the start of the takeoff race, and the pilots of this tragic flight instead of fulfilling their duty, broke the law and safety procedures, including the fundamental protocol of "sterile cabin".
The authorities say that no pilot could have saved the plane from that storm, but no truly responsible and professional pilot would have done the nonsense that they committed, deliberately, before the tragedy ...
The guild It is inevitable that these events are stirring the bowels of the community - pilots aviators. It has been misinterpreted that the Association of Airline Pilots (ASPA) has the position to overlap the conduct of these pilots, but in fact is doing the right thing to defend due process in his dismissal by the airline, is nothing more than a labor issue and that is the main function of a union, both pilots and companies must fulfill their obligations. It is the Association of Pilots Aviators of Mexico, which in my humble opinion works as an appendix of ASPA, which should have a more defined role in this matter, and is that they have not even officially pronounced about it with a statement, at the same time who have shown themselves close to the investigation as an uncomfortable judge and part, represented in the investigation panel by pilots who are employees of Aeromexico, while in other cases they have not hesitated to point the finger, especially against general aviation or Companies that are not affiliated with ASPA.
On the other hand, it is a pity that for a few the prestige of many excellent and very professional aviator pilots is affected, many of whom I admire with great respect, but unfortunately those "few" are already becoming too many and the list of incidents of undisciplined pilots is already worrisome: there are many cases of pilots who do not respond to calls from the control tower as if they had fallen asleep, some who are heading to the wrong tracks, others who landed at the wrong airport and then escaped taking off again believing that no one would notice, passing by the idiot who turned off a motor in mid-flight just to brag and many others who play with the planes to show off on social networks, not to mention those who go on a spree in the overnight stays. This must stop, ASPA and the Pilots Association must paint the line well between protecting the rights of their members and overlapping the misdeeds of the irresponsible.
I value the friendship of several former General Secretaries of ASPA and I have recognized that the union was an important guarantor of aviation security, because before for a company having the union involved a cost that was very worthwhile, as it was partly a "sure" of the high level of its pilots. Unfortunately today, the facts point to the fact that this is no longer the case and in this sense I believe that ASPA is not "nor the dust of those muds".
I can not believe that there was little sensitivity, the day after the preliminary progress of the accident occurred, of publishing the call to hire 28 new co-drivers just for Aeroméxico Connect, requesting as requirements 18 years of age and 250 total hours of flight, when they know perfectly well that their peers in the United States, by law, do not accept them with less than 21 years and 1,500 flight hours, precisely because they know the importance of that experience to ensure airline safety on the airlines. In the United States, the pilots' unions supported and defended the increase of requirements to be able to fly in the airlines, which they affirm has contributed to reduce the accident and incident rate; that in Mexico the regulations on the matter are obsolete is not an impediment for the guild of pilots to assume their responsibility in this problem and support that greater requirements are demanded.
Hopefully they can recognize this situation, leave pride aside and take more concrete actions to ensure that they do not reach the irresponsible and incapable pilot booths, and this beautiful profession is extolled ...
The company. Aero Litoral SA de CV, part of the Aeromexico Group that operates under the commercial name of Aeroméxico Connect, faces its biggest crisis with this problem. The first anniversary of the Group's partnership with Delta Airlines was just celebrated, and I know from good sources that the "gringos" are very concerned about the consequences that this situation could bring. Although Andrés Conesa, president of the Aeroméxico Group, when he made himself known about the pilots' actions, he dismissed them, at the time of this publication he has not yet issued a statement with an official statement to the public opinion, and this is very criticized, since passengers deserve an explanation urgently.
However, the internal statement on dismissal, which harshly qualifies the conduct of the pilots, hints at the seriousness of the matter and affirms the importance of not allowing the support of the 16 thousand families that depend on Aeromexico to be put at risk. the confidence of the 20 million passengers who are owed. Although the company is seen as a "victim" of the "deliberate violation of procedures" by the pilots, the damage has already been done and the trust of the passengers has already been put at risk, despite the obvious attempt to minimize the media. lack of pilots and open the "Chinese box" of the invincible and unpredictable climate as a direct cause of the accident, there are already many mass media that have explained things in detail.
The Aeromexico Group only has to assume its responsibility and I believe that managers should also roll heads, since in the areas of operational safety and training it is evident that it has failed, and in order to regain confidence in the company they should hire the The best experts in the world to occupy those positions, no matter what the cost and "cackle", otherwise it will not be easy to heal the wounds caused to the prestige of the airline.
And he still has to endure the blow of a storm as strong as the one that supposedly threw his plane: that of the lawsuits and insurance problems, which already clouds the clouds above his head ...
The passengers. The rights of passengers is the first thing that must be protected. The competition for the airlines is very strong and it goes without saying that the effort of all employees, especially flight crews, is essential to preserve the preference of customers.Frankly Aeromexico is not very good, for several years has been declining in the preference of passengers, just remember that in the "ranking" of the 100 best airlines in the world fell to the painful place 99 and with this scandal of the pilots of the plane Durango will surely go very wrong.
I set myself as an example and I must confess that I decided for almost a year and a half not to fly more for Aeromexico, due to the bad experience I suffered on a flight to Paris, when someone took my hand luggage from the plane and left another suitcase very similar instead;the flight attendants behaved badly, totally irresponsible and unrelated to the seriousness of the matter, especially since there was a terrorist alert in Europe and it was a few days after some attacks in London. I had to solve the problem on my own (and with the help of the Police), because the airline staff literally fled from their responsibility. I think that Aeroméxico has lowered its guard in terms of quality of service as well as operational safety, which has been noted, but this is an issue that concerns the entire industry, as there are other airlines that are better placed his beards to soak.
It is up to all of us to face the challenge of overcoming this crisis and take care that the flight personnel of all aviation companies, commercial and private, are up to the standards of safety, efficiency and world class service. The passengers deserve the peace of mind to be sure that they are in the best hands ...
The authorities. Which? Well, the General Directorate of Civil Aeronautics (DGAC) and its Investigation Commission of the Accident, headed by engineer Luis Gerardo Fonseca.
The role that the DGAC is playing in this whole issue seems very sad to me and is being criticized at a global level, which is a shame for our country. Revealing with such shyness and underestimating the participation of the so-called "third pilot" brought and taken is very worrying. Such a blunder could be explained by Hanlon's Principle, where something that is simply stupid can not be attributed to evil, but the way in which the DGAC avoids pointing out that this plane should not have taken off with such irregularities leaves us with many suspicions, since it seems that they are protecting certain interests, instead of pointing out the facts with the force, integrity and impartiality expected of the Authority.
The omission on the part of said authorities and the company to mention the existence of the "third pilot" since the accident in Durango (since they gave the names of the crew with all clarity) contributes to accentuate the illegality of the action of the pilots and it can not be alleged that it was an "unauthorized habilitation session", since this pilot was not in the process of his training, and it is clear that he only intended to move to Mexico City, destination of the unfortunate flight, using a service That by the way was already restricted by the airline.
Unfortunately, the DGAC has lost almost all its credibility, the poverty with which it works is balanced between incompetence and corruption. Sadly it is already a "cliché" that every time there is an air accident that reaches public scrutiny, irregularities are discovered with the pilots' licenses. Therefore it is understandable that it is already questioned behind the scenes that the inspectors of the DGAC, related to the processes of certifying as fit the pilots involved in this accident (and many others), may not have been properly qualified.
The clear condition of judge and part of the DGAC in this matter is fueling a very scandalous tide of speculation, alleged leaks and data on those involved, which is generating great concern and I believe that for the sake of the aviation industry all these rumors and suspicions should be well clarified and dissipated ...
The complexity of this issue is already a matter of national security and prestige and I believe that the Attorney General's Office (PGR) should be involved in thoroughly investigating all aspects beyond the competence of the DGAC and other parties. I know from a good source that there are already people working on a complaint of this nature, as they consider it very important to clarify well if there is corruption or cover-up behind this unfortunate case.
There are many things to clarify beyond what happened at the time of the fateful "microburst", as what pilots did the previous day and night did they rest well? What were the results of the medical assessment of the pilots immediately after the accident? Or how he went to detail his training and qualification as Embraer 190 pilots. They are very important points, it is not about crucifying anyone, but about quieting the rumors, giving certainty to the public opinion and identifying problems that may be threatening the security and that could warrant the implementation of corrective actions as soon as possible.
This whole situation reminds me of the movie "The Flight", a story of fiction where the character played by Denzel Washington is a pilot who faces with great skill a situation in flight almost impossible to save, but having committed a serious fault directly related to the accident. When, thanks to the great bureaucratic and legal apparatus that protects it, it is about to escape responsibility for its lack, it has the integrity and moral courage to speak the whole truth and face the consequences of its actions with a clear conscience. But it seems that only happens in movies ...
regards
Héctor Dávila.
Last edited by CurtainTwitcher; 12th Sep 2018 at 01:53.
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Really a Google Translate?
Not only good, but transfers the "sense" of a Spanish writer into English, which is not always easy.
Kudos for Google
The long speech is nothing new. All was talked in PPRune but comes concentrated in "one dose".
Not only good, but transfers the "sense" of a Spanish writer into English, which is not always easy.
Kudos for Google
The long speech is nothing new. All was talked in PPRune but comes concentrated in "one dose".
Last edited by guadaMB; 12th Sep 2018 at 08:46. Reason: Adding last sentence.
I am stunned, however, this is not the first time, but hopefully it will be the last.
A long time back, I joined an airline to be part of their Standards program. 7 days after arriving in country, I passengered on one of the airlines narrow body jets early in the morning, to do a validation examination at the nations capital. On the departure from the main city's international airport, I watched a tail strike develop, and felt that though my seat in first class. The other expat pilot beside em slept through the tailstrike... Anyway. Was curious whether the crew would do the NNCL procedure which is pretty much the same, irrespective of the aircraft brand, and is summed up as don't pressurise, land. So we flew at FL280 for 40 minutes and landed at the nations capital. On arrival, the flight crew deplaned promptly and ran to the back of the aircraft, returning with long faces.
3 months later, having completed the company line training as Captain, and also as trainer/instructor, and about to enter standards, I passengered back to this wonderland in one of my type aircraft. When about to close doors, a passenger sitting immediately behind me stood up, picked up a bag form the overhead and walked off the plane. The Cabin crew closed the doors. Curious, I went forward to chat to the senior cabin attendant, who said on quesioning that the passenger was a "No Show". I was missing something in the translation. After confirming that the cabin crew were quite prepared to dispatch the aircraft, I picked up the company FOM on my ipad, and read out the relevant part of security, and also noted that FYI, there are 2 countries in the world that what this crew were about to do was a criminal offense. Eventually, we got the Captain to chat with me, and lo and behold he is a good friend of mine. asking the Captain what he had been told by the system about the pax situation indicated that he had ben told that the pax had never turned up at check in. 2 hours later, and with an airport manager who was wondering about lying to the captain, we departed.
Arrived at the airlines home plate some time later, and at breakfast this story came up. One of the other crew commented that we didnt have much luck with the locals. I asked why, and the other pilot related the back story of the tailstrike.
pilot had a friend on the flight...
pilot invited friend to cockpit (offense)
Captain asked FO to vacate seat for passenger
Pasenger sat in FO seat for flight departure
Captain gave takeoff to Passenger... (pull back, houses get smaller)
OK... breakfast is not looking so good.
m'K, so was the passenger a NAA FOI? Nope
was the passenger an airline pilot on another type? Nope
was the passenger a military pilot, An F-5 Major perhaps??? Nope
was the passenger anything to do with flying???? Nope.
Had the passenger ever had a flying lesson?????? Nope.
m'K, you got me. So, was the Captain handed over to the police for the criminal actions?
Nope.
What happened to the Captain? He got 2 weeks paid vacation.
60 minutes after this conversation, I had visited the Head of Safety, a nice but troubled man, who was dealing with serious events on a weekly basis, and by serious I mean eye watering, not the stuff you want on your headlines sort of things... off runway with 5kts XW, 7kt xwind pod strike on left AND right engines on the one landing. circling in the wrong direction into mountains, circling in wrong direction into mountains, again, and... again. basically your hand over your AOC and go home sort of stuff. So, head of safety confirms the event, and more importantly the insipid, spineless company response.
5 minutes later, I have met the DFO, and handed my Company ID back to him, saying it was fun, but you really have issues that we are not going to sort out if the company gives holiday packages to criminal behaviour. The DFO is/was a nice guy, trying to change the program, but apparently there are different standards to an operation.
6 hours later, I depart the country in question. Didn't fly on the same airline, and won't.
So then, fast forward, and we have the same sort of nonsense occurring again. Is there some sort of problem we have in front of the flight deck door? Do rules of purely rational behaviour, compliance with criminal provisions of the law. These cowboys jeopardise the passenger, bystanders, the cabin crew, themselves, the airline, and even the countries accreditation on the world stage, and the management gives 2 weeks holiday as a penalty. Once I considered the industry was professional, I think the beancounters and HR have led the industry to the precipice.
But then maybe beauty is only in the eye of the beholder.
If the crew put a non pilot or non authorised pilot into an operating seat, and then took off in the middle of severe weather, then I cannot imagine any non punitive response is appropriate. I hope the story is completely wrong, as I assure you, if you find out that some goat played poker with your life and 167 others to get an ego trip, then it is hard to find forgiveness for the perpetrator or the system that condoned that behaviour.
Happy flying folks. You get the system that you are prepared to pay for.
recall Aeroflot Flight 593?
A long time back, I joined an airline to be part of their Standards program. 7 days after arriving in country, I passengered on one of the airlines narrow body jets early in the morning, to do a validation examination at the nations capital. On the departure from the main city's international airport, I watched a tail strike develop, and felt that though my seat in first class. The other expat pilot beside em slept through the tailstrike... Anyway. Was curious whether the crew would do the NNCL procedure which is pretty much the same, irrespective of the aircraft brand, and is summed up as don't pressurise, land. So we flew at FL280 for 40 minutes and landed at the nations capital. On arrival, the flight crew deplaned promptly and ran to the back of the aircraft, returning with long faces.
3 months later, having completed the company line training as Captain, and also as trainer/instructor, and about to enter standards, I passengered back to this wonderland in one of my type aircraft. When about to close doors, a passenger sitting immediately behind me stood up, picked up a bag form the overhead and walked off the plane. The Cabin crew closed the doors. Curious, I went forward to chat to the senior cabin attendant, who said on quesioning that the passenger was a "No Show". I was missing something in the translation. After confirming that the cabin crew were quite prepared to dispatch the aircraft, I picked up the company FOM on my ipad, and read out the relevant part of security, and also noted that FYI, there are 2 countries in the world that what this crew were about to do was a criminal offense. Eventually, we got the Captain to chat with me, and lo and behold he is a good friend of mine. asking the Captain what he had been told by the system about the pax situation indicated that he had ben told that the pax had never turned up at check in. 2 hours later, and with an airport manager who was wondering about lying to the captain, we departed.
Arrived at the airlines home plate some time later, and at breakfast this story came up. One of the other crew commented that we didnt have much luck with the locals. I asked why, and the other pilot related the back story of the tailstrike.
pilot had a friend on the flight...
pilot invited friend to cockpit (offense)
Captain asked FO to vacate seat for passenger
Pasenger sat in FO seat for flight departure
Captain gave takeoff to Passenger... (pull back, houses get smaller)
OK... breakfast is not looking so good.
m'K, so was the passenger a NAA FOI? Nope
was the passenger an airline pilot on another type? Nope
was the passenger a military pilot, An F-5 Major perhaps??? Nope
was the passenger anything to do with flying???? Nope.
Had the passenger ever had a flying lesson?????? Nope.
m'K, you got me. So, was the Captain handed over to the police for the criminal actions?
Nope.
What happened to the Captain? He got 2 weeks paid vacation.
60 minutes after this conversation, I had visited the Head of Safety, a nice but troubled man, who was dealing with serious events on a weekly basis, and by serious I mean eye watering, not the stuff you want on your headlines sort of things... off runway with 5kts XW, 7kt xwind pod strike on left AND right engines on the one landing. circling in the wrong direction into mountains, circling in wrong direction into mountains, again, and... again. basically your hand over your AOC and go home sort of stuff. So, head of safety confirms the event, and more importantly the insipid, spineless company response.
5 minutes later, I have met the DFO, and handed my Company ID back to him, saying it was fun, but you really have issues that we are not going to sort out if the company gives holiday packages to criminal behaviour. The DFO is/was a nice guy, trying to change the program, but apparently there are different standards to an operation.
6 hours later, I depart the country in question. Didn't fly on the same airline, and won't.
So then, fast forward, and we have the same sort of nonsense occurring again. Is there some sort of problem we have in front of the flight deck door? Do rules of purely rational behaviour, compliance with criminal provisions of the law. These cowboys jeopardise the passenger, bystanders, the cabin crew, themselves, the airline, and even the countries accreditation on the world stage, and the management gives 2 weeks holiday as a penalty. Once I considered the industry was professional, I think the beancounters and HR have led the industry to the precipice.
But then maybe beauty is only in the eye of the beholder.
If the crew put a non pilot or non authorised pilot into an operating seat, and then took off in the middle of severe weather, then I cannot imagine any non punitive response is appropriate. I hope the story is completely wrong, as I assure you, if you find out that some goat played poker with your life and 167 others to get an ego trip, then it is hard to find forgiveness for the perpetrator or the system that condoned that behaviour.
Happy flying folks. You get the system that you are prepared to pay for.
recall Aeroflot Flight 593?
Last edited by fdr; 19th Sep 2018 at 05:32.
And before the usual "3rd world operator... we, the rest of the first world don't do things like that.... " sort of BS starts. the post above was a JAA CERTIFIED OPERATOR.
Stupidity is universal, as is non compliance.
Stupidity is universal, as is non compliance.
The preliminary report shows a loss of airspeed in the rotate, and a very early gear retraction. At the same time the aircraft is encountering an increasing crosswind. The pitch angle never becomes particularly high, but the airspeed is low throughout so there was not much energy left to manage altitude with. The gear retraction with a decaying flight path put the plane on the deck and thereafter the engines departed the scene. Overall, a day that the crew would probably rather have a do over of all of their decisions. The longitudinal acceleration increasing just before impact is the vertical component of gravity being measured, although ground speed was increasing relative to airspeed, the plane was in at least a horizontal wind shear, which probably had a vertical component in which could be determined by isolating the component from horizontal only from the underlying energy state of the aircraft for non wind shear conditions. The E JET doesn't have such a pronounced performance loss from the retraction cycle as say a B74 does, but it still unwise to be retracting the gear near the ground under any questionable performance cases, we saw that dump a B773ER on it's butt recently.
This is supposed to be a profession. WTF.
This is supposed to be a profession. WTF.
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Avherald says this Mexican report is in spanish only... When you following the link the report has a photo format, so you cannot even copy paste the text into translation software.
So according to comments and articles above a bad report, no english version, and not even easily translatable. So not only Mexico dropping the proverbial ball here, but gets time for ICAO too to start doing something. I recently (had to) spend an inordinate amount of time on translating a Russian report (not successful...) and a large number of spanish language incident reports from Spain. You might call that a necessary waste of time.
You might say you take a high risk if you fly on planes from countries that do not publish reports. And take a medium risk if you fly on planes that do not publish an english version of their reports.
So according to comments and articles above a bad report, no english version, and not even easily translatable. So not only Mexico dropping the proverbial ball here, but gets time for ICAO too to start doing something. I recently (had to) spend an inordinate amount of time on translating a Russian report (not successful...) and a large number of spanish language incident reports from Spain. You might call that a necessary waste of time.
You might say you take a high risk if you fly on planes from countries that do not publish reports. And take a medium risk if you fly on planes that do not publish an english version of their reports.
Avherald says this Mexican report is in spanish only... When you following the link the report has a photo format, so you cannot even copy paste the text into translation software.
So according to comments and articles above a bad report, no english version, and not even easily translatable. So not only Mexico dropping the proverbial ball here, but gets time for ICAO too to start doing something. I recently (had to) spend an inordinate amount of time on translating a Russian report (not successful...) and a large number of spanish language incident reports from Spain. You might call that a necessary waste of time.
You might say you take a high risk if you fly on planes from countries that do not publish reports. And take a medium risk if you fly on planes that do not publish an english version of their reports.
So according to comments and articles above a bad report, no english version, and not even easily translatable. So not only Mexico dropping the proverbial ball here, but gets time for ICAO too to start doing something. I recently (had to) spend an inordinate amount of time on translating a Russian report (not successful...) and a large number of spanish language incident reports from Spain. You might call that a necessary waste of time.
You might say you take a high risk if you fly on planes from countries that do not publish reports. And take a medium risk if you fly on planes that do not publish an english version of their reports.
ICAO does not, and cannot, mandate that accident investigation reports should be published in any particular language, regardless of what Anglocentric readers might think. Spanish is, after all, one of the six official UN/ICAO working languages.
The fact that it's a scanned document and not a native PDF is, I assume, for legal reasons given that every page is countersigned by 5 individual members of the board of investigation.
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The fact that it's a scanned document and not a native PDF is, I assume, for legal reasons given that every page is countersigned by 5 individual members of the board of investigation.
Nevertheless, it can be OCRed and then auto-translated with not too much effort. The probable cause and contributing factors took me <30secs. Professional OCR tools (which I no longer have) with spanish language input would do a better job, but then so would a spanish speaker with Mk1 eyeball...
For those interested, my basic OCR and google-translate of probable cause and contributing factors (no manual corrections):
Probable cause
IMPACT AGAINST THE TRACK ORIGINATED BY THE LOSS OF CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT IN THE FINAL PHASE OF THE WINDSHEAP Abandonment CAREER LOW HEIGHT AT PRODUCIPSE A LOSS OF SPEED V SUSTAINABILITY
CONTRIBUTING FACTORS:
Crew
a) Reduction of the situational awareness of the crew of flight SL12431 when performing the
commanding unauthorized instructional tasks without being qualified to provide
flight instruction and assign co-pilot and pilot functions f, I thnk that lying from the aircraft to a pilot
Not certified or authorized.
b) Omission in detecting the variations of iridication that the airspeed indicator showed in the PFD21
during the takeoff race
c) Lack of adherence to sterile cabin procedures and operational procedures (TVC:
Changes of runway and / or its conditions to take off after closing doors; Take off in
adverse conditions windshear) established in the Flight Operations Manual, in the Manual
of Dispatch and in the Standard Operating Procedures, of Aerolitoral, S. A. de C. V.
If you read past the OCR errors + google-translate-isms, I think that is pretty much as expected.
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I read it as
"Loss of control at lift-off, due to low-level wind shear" (cause)
runway impact, loss of speed, loss of lift are the results and not the cause.
"Loss of control at lift-off, due to low-level wind shear" (cause)
runway impact, loss of speed, loss of lift are the results and not the cause.
Last edited by vmandr; 26th Feb 2019 at 19:45.
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D'accord, but...
To understand the policy of blaming mainly on Wx (putting under the carpet the crew affaire), have to dig into the insurance contracts. Not reachable for us, but easy to suppose its terms.
Besides it, it's not to forget some peculiarities that could concur. All depends on the possible godfather/s of the crew members (inside & outside the carrier).
Can't say more...
To understand the policy of blaming mainly on Wx (putting under the carpet the crew affaire), have to dig into the insurance contracts. Not reachable for us, but easy to suppose its terms.
Besides it, it's not to forget some peculiarities that could concur. All depends on the possible godfather/s of the crew members (inside & outside the carrier).
Can't say more...
