A380 - the best is yet to come
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I went to a briefing with ATC from Heathrow. The most common aircraft there is the A320/737, and they said that the 380 had the effect of reducing the airport capacity because of the extra spacing that they were required to put into the approach paths.
I fly the 380, and whilst I like it, it's quite obvious that it was an Airbus/Boeing pissing contest, and little more.
I fly the 380, and whilst I like it, it's quite obvious that it was an Airbus/Boeing pissing contest, and little more.
If memory serves, the 747 was similarly an aircraft that sold poorly during its first decade. If that precedent holds true, the 380 should see a resurgence, perhaps in another couple of years.
What really made the 747 popular was the -400 model - nearly half of all 747s produced were 747-400/400F. A big selling point for the 747-400 was it's range - basically if you needed the range of a 747-400, you had to have a 747-400, even if you couldn't fill it. Today, there are numerous twins that match the range of a A380/747, so they only make sense if you can fill them on a regular basis.
The A380 has been awash in red ink since it was launched - most A380s produced to date cost more to build than they sold for - and that's not going to improve with the planned 8/year production rate. Forget about ever making back the tens of billions in development costs...
True. But that only matters if it's aircraft-mile costs (as opposed to SMCs) that are important and/or if you want to fly a long way. Which, admittedly, is the case for many (but not all) markets.
I've flown on the A380 and loved it - I fully understand why it's very popular with passengers in general. But it's not popular with the bean counters.
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Originally Posted by mrdeux
I went to a briefing with ATC from Heathrow. The most common aircraft there is the A320/737, and they said that the 380 had the effect of reducing the airport capacity because of the extra spacing that they were required to put into the approach path.
Reality invalidates the argument of increasing hub capacity with the 380!
Originally Posted by glofish
That's consistent with what i posted earlier in the DXB case. These two airports handle the biggest 380 traffic.
Reality invalidates the argument of increasing hub capacity with the 380!
Reality invalidates the argument of increasing hub capacity with the 380!
Great pax experience, the shower in my view is gimmicky as every decent lounge has a shower these days etc.
Its not done yet, but it is on the downhill slide in terms of new markets.
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Most comfortable, smooth and quiet aircraft I have flown on for 50 years, I am sure that people are paying,, and will continue to pay, the premium necessary to fly this bird. Now if only they could get one into Georgetown, cruise liners dump 15,000 people on the dock every day, so why not extend the runway into the sea and bus a few hundred in by air - now I'm getting really selfish.
There is no doubt that the likes of Emirates and other significant fleet owners of A380 continue to hoover up large numbers of b*ms on seats from other operators. Now, our Willy has many faults but he definitely has a future eye for what works from a business perspective, hence the rumors of another buy although a "stretch" might be a bridge too far.
Still not firmed up though: BA A380 rumours
IG
There is no doubt that the likes of Emirates and other significant fleet owners of A380 continue to hoover up large numbers of b*ms on seats from other operators. Now, our Willy has many faults but he definitely has a future eye for what works from a business perspective, hence the rumors of another buy although a "stretch" might be a bridge too far.
Still not firmed up though: BA A380 rumours
IG
Last edited by ImageGear; 19th Jul 2018 at 06:57.
Originally Posted by mrdeux
I went to a briefing with ATC from Heathrow. The most common aircraft there is the A320/737, and they said that the 380 had the effect of reducing the airport capacity because of the extra spacing that they were required to put into the approach paths.
Something doesn't quite add up.
Out of the Middle East in the summer months the B777 and A330 suffer significant payload restrictions due to high temps adversely affecting engine failure at take off figures. To overcome this the airline can either restrict payload or change the schedule to a cooler part of the day/night, both of which affect the transfer feed.
The A380 doesn't have the same issues and can still operate at capacity.
It will be interesting to see if the 2nd hand market for A380 attracts a charter operator who utilises the full 800+ capacity. That might make quite a difference. One A380 instead of 4 x B737/A320. It isn't unusual to see 3 or 4 operators operating the same route at a similar time. Could one operator of an A380 take the prize?
The A380 doesn't have the same issues and can still operate at capacity.
It will be interesting to see if the 2nd hand market for A380 attracts a charter operator who utilises the full 800+ capacity. That might make quite a difference. One A380 instead of 4 x B737/A320. It isn't unusual to see 3 or 4 operators operating the same route at a similar time. Could one operator of an A380 take the prize?
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Originally Posted by etudiant
If memory serves, the 747 was similarly an aircraft that sold poorly during its first decade. If that precedent holds true, the 380 should see a resurgence, perhaps in another couple of years.
Real challenge is whether Airbus is prepared to invest in a stretch, which would be the next logical step.
Imho, the gating item is the ground processing, not the market demand. We need to be able to process a planeload of passengers instantly, rather than serially.
Boarding procedures that date back to the age of sail need to be brought up to date if aviation is to step into the future.
Real challenge is whether Airbus is prepared to invest in a stretch, which would be the next logical step.
Imho, the gating item is the ground processing, not the market demand. We need to be able to process a planeload of passengers instantly, rather than serially.
Boarding procedures that date back to the age of sail need to be brought up to date if aviation is to step into the future.
initial sales were not that bad but the project did almost break Boeing as we all know
the 747's size and weight at first caused airports to have to get ready to receive 747's so perhaps AB should have stayed their design on the same platform as the 747 thus its route availability would have been the same as the Jumbo
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Originally Posted by surely not
Out of the Middle East in the summer months the B777 and A330 suffer significant payload restrictions due to high temps adversely affecting engine failure at take off figures. To overcome this the airline can either restrict payload or change the schedule to a cooler part of the day/night, both of which affect the transfer feed.
The A380 doesn't have the same issues and can still operate at capacity.
It will be interesting to see if the 2nd hand market for A380 attracts a charter operator who utilises the full 800+ capacity. That might make quite a difference. One A380 instead of 4 x B737/A320. It isn't unusual to see 3 or 4 operators operating the same route at a similar time. Could one operator of an A380 take the prize?
The A380 doesn't have the same issues and can still operate at capacity.
It will be interesting to see if the 2nd hand market for A380 attracts a charter operator who utilises the full 800+ capacity. That might make quite a difference. One A380 instead of 4 x B737/A320. It isn't unusual to see 3 or 4 operators operating the same route at a similar time. Could one operator of an A380 take the prize?
Laker Finnair and Condor DC10's then MD11's of LTU and Finnair
LTU Court and British Airtours Tristars
BOAC Condor KLM Scanair Aer Lingus Sabena Martinair 747's
A300's Germanair Laker Karair Monarch and many more
767's Britannia and Braathens from 1984
now these airports rarely see many WB holiday jets - TCK Jet2 and TOM/BY in UK still send their big stuff out short haul in the summer but not may EU airlines have WB charter jets
all we see now is lines and lines of 320 family and 737's plus EMB's plus a few 757's
not many of those airports except Palma has seen an A380 as yet afaik
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I think you are in a minority there. In my experience most PAX have no idea what aluminium tube they are sitting in and decide on their flight by looking to see who has the cheapest ticket on Priceline.com and hit that button.
Personally, given the option I will always get on a 380. the ride alone is enough, but the peace and quiet is a game changer. I flew on four aircraft types within 24hrs on a trip to Oz last year. 320, 380, 777, Dash 8. the 777 was by far the worst. Bumpy ride, rattley and noisy. All the nay sayers here are either Airbus phobic or Boeing employees.
The 380 is a terrific aircraft. It will be around for a long time. Celebrate it.
PS. Yes, Emirates operate 3 x 380 per day from MAN to DBX and they are full most days.
Originally Posted by 5711N0205W
I have just booked a return trip to Aus (from the UK) and choice of A380/350 for the route was one deciding factor. 777 is on my avoid if possible for long haul list.
Without fail theses threads descend into mine is bigger than yours arguments, if that fits your world view then perhaps you should review the facts regarding how many 380s are in service v 777/A350/787/ A330.
If the best is yet to come, quite frankly I will be astounded.
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Originally Posted by surely not
Out of the Middle East in the summer months the B777 and A330 suffer significant payload restrictions due to high temps adversely affecting engine failure at take off figures. To overcome this the airline can either restrict payload or change the schedule to a cooler part of the day/night.........
I wonder what that does to the QANTAS 787 flights out of Perth direct London in the middle of summer when PER is 42 deg in the water bag.
The highest hourly earner is Emirates. It made $25,308 (£19,000) from the London Heathrow to Dubai routeThe above, a cut from an article about the 10 highest earning airline routes in the world, would tend to debunk the “not economical to operate" argument in this thread. All DXB - LHR - DXB flights are 380 operated.
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov
The highest hourly earner is Emirates. It made $25,308 (£19,000) from the London Heathrow to Dubai route
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It does not look like something that I'd be investing in.
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Strange. The steadily increasing number of A380 movements at LHR over the years hasn't resulted in any reduction in the numbers of either flights or passengers that the airport has handled.
Something doesn't quite add up.
Something doesn't quite add up.
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Originally Posted by surely not
It will be interesting to see if the 2nd hand market for A380 attracts a charter operator who utilises the full 800+ capacity. That might make quite a difference. One A380 instead of 4 x B737/A320. It isn't unusual to see 3 or 4 operators operating the same route at a similar time. Could one operator of an A380 take the prize?
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Twin engined aircraft are much cheaper to operate and have the same or better range than four engine models. Bye bye 747 and 380 aircraft.
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Originally Posted by BAengineer
In my experience most PAX have no idea what aluminium tube they are sitting in....
Furthermore, how many passengers actually have complete freedom over flight selection? The majority of tourists will simply be booked on a flight selected by their tour operator. Most business travellers will be subject to a company travel policy.
Personally speaking, the most important things for me when travelling are convenient flight timing, price and airline, in that order. Aircraft type is of interest to me, but there’s no way I’m going to put myself to any inconvenience or pay over the odds just to travel in the 380.
Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc
There’s ways and means of reducing or negating impact. After an A380 effectively closes a departure runway for a few minutes after taking off, let an arrival in on it, or if arrival runway is outboard of departure runway, stack up the crossing taxiways and let them all cross after the 380 departs.
But neither of those strategies is routinely adopted at Heathrow, and yet the introduction of the A380 has still not led to a reduction in capacity.
