Convair 340 (C-131D) ZS-BRV crash Pretoria, South Africa
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The operative word is "noticeably." In the Convair (assuming my memory is correct from over 50 years ago since I flew the Convair 440) there was usually around 15 BMEP difference between the two engines on take off. That was because one of the engines was used for operating the air-conditioning /pressurisation systems and that stole power from that engine, for want of a better term. I forget which engine. However manifold pressure and RPM indications displayed equal for both engines. It was only the BMEP for one engine that was slightly down on the other engine
The operative word is "noticeably." In the Convair (assuming my memory is correct from over 50 years ago since I flew the Convair 440) there was usually around 15 BMEP difference between the two engines on take off. That was because one of the engines was used for operating the air-conditioning /pressurisation systems and that stole power from that engine, for want of a better term. I forget which engine. However manifold pressure and RPM indications displayed equal for both engines. It was only the BMEP for one engine that was slightly down on the other engine
And to think there are people on here who talk about the simple aircraft of the 1950s!
I still remember my first leg as PIC after 15-20 hours of OE with a line check airman. The FO and I had both come off DC-3s. Lining up on the runway I asked "Are you ready for this?" BMEP gauges and auto-feather lights. CHT selector switches and water pressure lights and gauges. We even had engine analyzers on some of the planes if you wanted to get up and play with them.
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Paxing All Over The World
My point was: do we keep on crashing old aircraft until there are none left? There might be Convairs lining up to crashed buy not so many Ju-52s and old warbirds.
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Especially if there of plenty of types available for static display in a museum.
This isn't the Wright Flyer.
Better to BE a part of history than to just SEE history.
Paxing All Over The World
Since I was told that Convair are 'a dime a dozen' (sort of) I replied that it's fine to go on breaking them. But, at what point do you stop - when there are only three exampes left? One?
Agreed, paxboy. They said the same thing about Spits, Hurricanes and Lancasters after WWII
You may as well ban all aerobatic displays then Centaurus. The machines are privately owned and I don't see why the owners shouldn't do whatever they like with them. If someone wants to make sure there is a non-flying but airworthy museum piece then they are welcome to buy one and store it.
The tragedy of this event is that two people lost there lives. It could have been so much worse. By all means speculate on the cause of this horrific event, but don't you dare condemn two men who have arguably saved the lives of 18 people on board, on the basis of a preliminary report.
WhoFlungDung writes that two people lost their lives in this accident, whereas the Preliminary Report states one, who I understand was the LAME. I'm hoping no one else has died since?
The circumstances of the sad death of the LAME will presumably be covered in a later report. Considering he was charged with operating the engine controls, was he able to wear a harness on whatever he was seated?
The circumstances of the sad death of the LAME will presumably be covered in a later report. Considering he was charged with operating the engine controls, was he able to wear a harness on whatever he was seated?
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WhoFlungDung writes that two people lost their lives in this accident, whereas the Preliminary Report states one, who I understand was the LAME. I'm hoping no one else has died since?
Yes, that was posted by Hotel Tango on 11th July, the day after the accident, citing a Dutch news source. The date of the Preliminary Report is corrupt ("01 FEBRUARY 2017" [sic]). but I imagine it was compiled well after that. It clearly states that 8 people on the ground were injured, 4 seriously, but no fatalities at that stage.
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Yes, that was posted by Hotel Tango on 11th July, the day after the accident, citing a Dutch news source. The date of the Preliminary Report is corrupt ("01 FEBRUARY 2017" [sic]). but I imagine it was compiled well after that. It clearly states that 8 people on the ground were injured, 4 seriously, but no fatalities at that stage.
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I was unaware the ground fatality report was erroneous. I'm glad to hear that, this was bad enough as is.
Relieved to have confirmation that no one died on the ground, thanks.
voyageur9 (#246) highlights a critical factor and asks a reasonable question. My thoughts on these historic aircraft operations are that, inevitably, a small clique of pilots become type-rated (not a small achievement in the modern era, given the flying that must be involved) and from that, they become 'legends'... their celebrity, of course, being promoted by such people as personnel within their historic aircraft organisation, the media, and various airshow commentators. It IS beginning to sound as if the captain was not quite as competent--including in managing CRM--as some have suggested by pointing out his pedigree. It is also looking as if that old-hand LAME might have been extended slightly excessive deference due to his acknowledged familiarity with the aircraft and to the captain's previous experience of flying with him. There was also--apparently--a supernumerary STANDING on the flightdeck or in the doorway during the flight. These matters also go to the question of the degree of precision of captaincy and management of CRM displayed (or not) by the PF that day.
The ATSB's FindIT tool shows the crash site at 25' 40"/28' 17".
The ATSB's FindIT tool shows the crash site at 25' 40"/28' 17".
Last edited by Down and Welded; 20th Aug 2018 at 06:14.
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I think this whole warbird/vintage debate is derailing this thread. Whatever the antiquity of the aircraft is, it was operating in a passenger-carrying role with some clear risks involved.
Whether or not those risks were correctly managed is currently speculative; whether or not those risks associated with passenger carrying needed to be incurred in the first place, is not.
Whether or not those risks were correctly managed is currently speculative; whether or not those risks associated with passenger carrying needed to be incurred in the first place, is not.