Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Boeing to take over Embraer Commercial Aircraft Production

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Boeing to take over Embraer Commercial Aircraft Production

Old 5th Jul 2018, 13:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southend-on-Sea
Posts: 19
Boeing to take over Embraer Commercial Aircraft Production

Boeing to take over Embraer Commercial Aircraft Production

https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.charpentreau/21513-boeing-takes-over-embraer-commercial-plane-production?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campai gn=breaking_news_boeing_takes_over_embraer_commercial_plane_ production_aerotime&utm_term=2018-07-05
Mister Blue Sky is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 13:42
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 96
If in the past I had any doubt about Boeing and Airbus's duopoly, they have now been completely wiped out. Boeing + Embraer vs. Airbus + Bombardier.
Foxdeux is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 14:33
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Belle Province
Posts: 2,174
Are Boeing at least paying more than a nominal dollar for "their" bit of Embraer??
Mad (Flt) Scientist is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 14:48
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 57
Posts: 30
The new company, encompassing Embraer’s commercial aircraft and services businesses, should make Boeing the market leader for smaller passenger jets, creating stiffer competition for the CSeries aircraft program designed by Canada’s Bombardier Inc (BBDb.TO) and backed by European rival Airbus SE (AIR.PA).

The deal values Embraer’s commercial aircraft operations, the world’s third-largest, at $4.75 billion and Boeing’s 80-percent ownership stake in the joint venture at $3.8 billion, the companies said.
underfire is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Belle Province
Posts: 2,174
Yeah, but just because their stake is going to be valued at 3.8 billion doesn't mean that's what they are paying for it. I'm sure Airbus reckons their Cseries stake is worth more than the $1 they have paid!
Mad (Flt) Scientist is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:23
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 368
Hmm, well I strongly suspect that Embraer have entered into this deal with a degree of reluctance.

Had Bombardier stayed isolated, Embraer would likely have been able to compete solidly with anything coming out of Canada. With Airbus moving in on the act, due at least partly to Boeing bringing that failed trade dispute, Embraer cannot compete with that and are more or less forced to merge with Boeing.

Arguably Boeing needed Embraer more than Embraer needed Boeing, but once A+B became AirBardier there was no choice left. I fancy that Embraer's discussions with Boeing in recent months started off, "Well thanks Boeing, you've really screwed that up".
msbbarratt is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:25
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 56
Posts: 1,769
Hmm a bit disappointing to see Embraer going. The duopoly is well and alive...
atakacs is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 18:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by msbbarratt View Post
Hmm, well I strongly suspect that Embraer have entered into this deal with a degree of reluctance.

Had Bombardier stayed isolated, Embraer would likely have been able to compete solidly with anything coming out of Canada. With Airbus moving in on the act, due at least partly to Boeing bringing that failed trade dispute, Embraer cannot compete with that and are more or less forced to merge with Boeing.

Arguably Boeing needed Embraer more than Embraer needed Boeing, but once A+B became AirBardier there was no choice left. I fancy that Embraer's discussions with Boeing in recent months started off, "Well thanks Boeing, you've really screwed that up".

A+B............why not BomBus.............oh wait nevermind
Foxdeux is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 02:26
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA
Age: 76
Posts: 131
Discussions that have going on for ages have maintained that Boeing needed engineering souls for the NMA and Embraer has manpower available. In addition Boeing has worked with Embraer on the KC390 and even though this only involves the commercial side, Boeing is able to market the KC390. This has always made a lot of sense with the increasing competition from Russia and China. Wouldn't be surprised to see 737s or even the Dreamliner built in Brazil to steer clear of the USA idiocy.
NWA SLF is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 09:34
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the edge of madness
Posts: 493
Still astonished they are prepared to let go 80%. They must have been facing a significant cash-crunch for them to have agreed to this.
Torquelink is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 10:40
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Equatorial
Age: 49
Posts: 836
It’s not a duopoly... Mitsubishi Regional Jet, Sukhoi, Comac...

Oh wait.....

Yeah ok it’s a duopoly still, some of the above do look good thou!
Global Aviator is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 11:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 400
@Torquelink
Still astonished they are prepared to let go 80%. They must have been facing a significant cash-crunch for them to have agreed to this.
Would be interested in hearing more about the rationale of this move from the Embraer side ! Does anyone have a link to a good independent source on this?

In a strategic move you have to include such issues as Trumps approach to trade. A 49% US interest would have made more sense from that point of view.

Hope to hear more.
A0283 is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 12:29
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 536
Wow. Almost at one fell swoop, 95% of civil airliner production has been swept into a cosy global Duopoly...

If ever the stage was set for China, possibly with Russian assistance, to announce its intentions to step onto the world aeronautical stage, that time surely has to be now.

My guess is the next 10 years in the aircraft manufacturing sector will be CONSIDERABLY more interesting than the last 10.

We'll see.




er340790 is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 13:20
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Uk
Posts: 36
Legal action round 2

How long before Boeing goes running back to the USgov citing that they now offer a small jet and that the silly % import tax should be applied to the c series after all. ???
Pizzacake is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 18:47
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted by Pizzacake View Post
How long before Boeing goes running back to the USgov citing that they now offer a small jet and that the silly % import tax should be applied to the c series after all. ???
Difficult if the C series is built in Alabama....
etudiant is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 22:16
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 86
"Would be interested in hearing more about the rationale of this move from the Embraer side! Does anyone have a link to a good independent source on this?"

I'm not sure how independent you regard FlightGlobal to be:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...than-w-450001/ (may require login)

The interesting bit in this article is this: 'Consolidation has led to the rise of super-suppliers constructed to maximise leverage against Airbus and Boeing. Bombardier and Embraer both faced the prospect of negotiating with suppliers five to 10 times larger than themselves, to feed a regional and small narrowbody market that is tiny in comparison with the narrowbody operations at the big two.'

IOW, supplier consolidation means that both Bombardier and Embraer no longer have sufficient market clout to keep supplier costs under control. In business, if you cannot control costs, you're finished.

But duopoly? The real threats always come from unconsidered vectors. Here: https://quillette.com/2018/07/02/thr...ia-university/ a chap says: 'I had hoped sciences and engineering were somewhat insulated from the progressives. But if Media Studies students are Teaching Assistants in the College of Engineering, that means the progressives are infecting – yes, infecting – other departments than the social “sciences.” Yes, “sciences” because from what I can tell, true science has been all but abandoned in these fields. If they are truly spreading into the hard sciences and engineering, I fear for the bridges and skyscrapers n 20 years after our scientists and engineers are taught that physics and mathematics are products of the cis-white racist patriarchy and can be ignored for “your truth.”"

- to which a respondent replies: 'Would you fly in an airliner designed by someone who believes that ‘physics and mathematics are products of the cis-white racist patriarchy and can be ignored for “your truth.”’? And perhaps more to the point, would they? Perhaps it’s a non-question. Would it even fly? Would it ever make it out of the workshop? Not to worry. The Chinese are now making airliners.'

- which is a long-winded way of saying that The Duopoly's current engineering pre-eminence is not necessarily a given, in the long term. A fish rots from the head.
Iron Duck is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 14:03
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 57
Posts: 30
While selling the C Series made sense for Bombardier, Embraer selling to Boeing really doesnt make sense.

All E series sales combine orders 141.
The relevant E 190 (43) and 195 (5) total 48 orders
C series orders CS100 (126) and CS 300 (276) orders to date, 402 total orders to date.
underfire is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 14:15
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
I wonder just how much the those at the top levels in the management at the top of Embraer understand how much Boeing are now detested by other players, all it needs is for the Chinese's/Russian's and maybe others to enter the fray and it could all come tumbling down. Thank heavens I'm retired! !
clunckdriver is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 14:57
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,097
Originally Posted by underfire View Post
While selling the C Series made sense for Bombardier, Embraer selling to Boeing really doesnt make sense.

All E series sales combine orders 141.
The relevant E 190 (43) and 195 (5) total 48 orders
C series orders CS100 (126) and CS 300 (276) orders to date, 402 total orders to date.
The E2 backlog is around 350 orders, plus around 170 of the original models yet to be delivered. Where are your figures from ?
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 15:23
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada/Malaysia
Age: 82
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by underfire View Post
While selling the C Series made sense for Bombardier, Embraer selling to Boeing really doesnt make sense.

All E series sales combine orders 141.
The relevant E 190 (43) and 195 (5) total 48 orders
C series orders CS100 (126) and CS 300 (276) orders to date, 402 total orders to date.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...-Jet_operators

...better have a redo on your numbers
BlankBox is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.