Ryanair pilot strike
Firstly, something to keep in mind is the fact that workers have a lot of rights in the Netherlands. That may be the reason that some of the rulings may sound strange to foreigners.
One of the rights is the right to strike. For a judge the reason doesn't really matter, if a strike is a legal one the striking employees may not face ANY negative consequences.
(other then not getting paid for the days that they where striking). In this case no judge forbid the strike, so it is a legal one and whatever the demands were, it may not have negative consequences.
Big issue is also the fact that this is civil right. Unlike criminal law, it is way more lenient with proof. For example: The pilots claimed that the closure is due to the strikes. Ryanair claims it is due to economic reason but fails to prove so. Thus the judge rules that the closure is due to the strike (also based on letters send earlier by Ryanair stating that they will close the base if strikes occur, not so smart).
This is actually how the law works in The Netherlands, with a lot of protection for the workers, not so much for the companies. We will have to wait and see what happens when Ryanair declares those pilots redundant and goes to court. Your guess is as good as mine in that respect
One of the rights is the right to strike. For a judge the reason doesn't really matter, if a strike is a legal one the striking employees may not face ANY negative consequences.
(other then not getting paid for the days that they where striking). In this case no judge forbid the strike, so it is a legal one and whatever the demands were, it may not have negative consequences.
Big issue is also the fact that this is civil right. Unlike criminal law, it is way more lenient with proof. For example: The pilots claimed that the closure is due to the strikes. Ryanair claims it is due to economic reason but fails to prove so. Thus the judge rules that the closure is due to the strike (also based on letters send earlier by Ryanair stating that they will close the base if strikes occur, not so smart).
This is actually how the law works in The Netherlands, with a lot of protection for the workers, not so much for the companies. We will have to wait and see what happens when Ryanair declares those pilots redundant and goes to court. Your guess is as good as mine in that respect
Pilots will of course NOT be free to fly for someone else, they still get paid. After 2 years what is a pilot worth, who hasn't flown commerically in 2 years, no Sim time, in a standoff with their employer and are they "employable" elsewhere. Employers may have a different viewpoint.
EIN staff win but being in crew rooms daily where you know you will never fly will take its own toll on health and well being.
In Ryanair's case it can afford the financial cost because it would be sending a message to everywhere else but could the individuals ?
In the verdict on the first of November, the judge has already stated that the base closure is not a proven result of economic reason, but suspectibly done because of the strikes. He sees the closure as a misuse of power.
He has ruled the pilots will have to stay based in Eindhoven, get their salary, and maintain their currency.
He has ruled the pilots will have to stay based in Eindhoven, get their salary, and maintain their currency.
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Pilots will of course NOT be free to fly for someone else, they still get paid. After 2 years what is a pilot worth, who hasn't flown commerically in 2 years, no Sim time, in a standoff with their employer and are they "employable" elsewhere. Employers may have a different viewpoint.
?
Last edited by Sorry Dog; 6th Nov 2018 at 00:35. Reason: redundant post...
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One could say that if they end up not working for Ryanair, then it’s worked out well for them.
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What would stop Ryanair sending each pilot out of base for 1 day a month for currency followed by 3 weeks sitting in a briefing room? Costly to keep everyone sitting around a briefing room on 12 hour standbys but with the profits they are making its small change.
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If Ryanair loses the redundancy-courtcase, something like this will likely happen. They will always find a way to get back at people who tried to speak up, as a warning to others. They will never let the worker 'win'.
Nothing. As long as the pilots stay current, get their salary, and are based in Eindhoven, Ryanair complies with the court ruling.
If Ryanair loses the redundancy-courtcase, something like this will likely happen. They will always find a way to get back at people who tried to speak up, as a warning to others. They will never let the worker 'win'.
If Ryanair loses the redundancy-courtcase, something like this will likely happen. They will always find a way to get back at people who tried to speak up, as a warning to others. They will never let the worker 'win'.
Ultimately Ryanair can justifiably close the base at a later date, they making substantial losses because of the costs associated with paying staff to do nothing.
This bit is easy to quantify but you have a lot of people who have been sat around 5 days a week for 2 years in a base doing nothing.
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Who has then "WON".
Ultimately Ryanair can justifiably close the base at a later date, they making substantial losses because of the costs associated with paying staff to do nothing.
This bit is easy to quantify but you have a lot of people who have been sat around 5 days a week for 2 years in a base doing nothing.
Ultimately Ryanair can justifiably close the base at a later date, they making substantial losses because of the costs associated with paying staff to do nothing.
This bit is easy to quantify but you have a lot of people who have been sat around 5 days a week for 2 years in a base doing nothing.
Even just 1 month of doing this. They could simply show the money made across their network in different bases and then show the loss which would be made in Eindhoven. Would that then become enough of an economic problem to close the base?
Lets hope this doesn't happen but we all know Ryanair will be there to 'win'
Even just 1 month of doing this. They could simply show the money made across their network in different bases and then show the loss which would be made in Eindhoven. Would that then become enough of an economic problem to close the base?
Lets hope this doesn't happen but we all know Ryanair will be there to 'win'
Lets hope this doesn't happen but we all know Ryanair will be there to 'win'
Even just 1 month of doing this. They could simply show the money made across their network in different bases and then show the loss which would be made in Eindhoven. Would that then become enough of an economic problem to close the base?
Lets hope this doesn't happen but we all know Ryanair will be there to 'win'
Lets hope this doesn't happen but we all know Ryanair will be there to 'win'
Shutting base completely is a perfectly valid option and exiting flying in there is a perfectly valid option as there are numerous cases where this has happened previously. Thes can be classified as business decisions.
I guess people need to think how reference would look assumming reference is "X employed from Y to Z at ABC base", an employer seeing Marc employed by Ryanair from Jan 2016 to Jan 2021 based at Eindhoven knowing he has not flown regularly for 2 years and part of a big dispute may just decide to go onto next CV.
Martyrs get lots of rhetoric in support but that doesn't make up for end of career.
That would probably require a judge how's blind, daft and suffering from alzheimers. It would be exceedingly easy for the other party to make the case, that any losses sustained at the base was a direct consequence of them having umpteen crewmembers sat around doing nothing, whilst having crew from other bases doing the flights. Keep in mind a judge has already heard the case where Ryanair was unable to make their points stick. Them coming back saying 'look, we're losing money now' would probably not, as they say, fly in a court of law. It would be even harder for Ryanair to prove EIN is loss making, when all they've done is reverse the flights, effectively still serving the market. Ryanair's only hope would then be to completely shut down all flying to/from EIN - an airport which by all accounts is turning them a healthy profit. THEN they could lay off all staff, but obviously only in accordance with Dutch law as has been outlined previously in this thread.
How long is FR-EIN deal ?
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At least the sackings mean Ryanair can now say no Ryanair staff had to sleep on the floor! (Since they’re no longer staff!) You couldn’t make it up! What century is this?
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The cctv footage also showed that this was not just a random lie down to take a rest but rather an orchestrated event, a childish one at that.
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Then this happened!
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
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Then this happened!
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
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With any company in the face of employee disputes the company will try to 'save face' and minimise the problems it is facing. It did seem like a standard response from FR management when the disputes started. I am sure a more realistic view was given behind closed doors. Most big investors don't look too much at media reports but rather the internal facts so I am curious to how they felt FR was negligent in this case?
Then this happened!
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
quote: 'Unbeknownst to investors, the company's historical profit growth was built on an undisclosed and unsustainable foundation of worker exploitation and employee turnover,'
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Mind you in most companies now days the threat of of industrial damage due to employees social media accounts is covered by strict social media rules. It is very unfortunate these 6 crew lost their jobs however I do have to say that this photo seemed like a blatant attempt to cause damage to the companies reputation. I believe most companies now would call for dismissal if such an event took place or at least a very stern warning.
The cctv footage also showed that this was not just a random lie down to take a rest but rather an orchestrated event, a childish one at that.
The cctv footage also showed that this was not just a random lie down to take a rest but rather an orchestrated event, a childish one at that.
A bit like rushing out the black paint to cover up the logos when the results of lack of mainainance occur.
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When you are a limited company you can not give the big investors realistic information behind closed doors and keep this information from other investors, that would be insider trading and is not only illegal but also very damaging for the trust in the stock market in general.
There were times that companies thought of their responsibilities to their employees and if they had this could never have happened so it could not have been in social media.
A bit like rushing out the black paint to cover up the logos when the results of lack of mainainance occur.
A bit like rushing out the black paint to cover up the logos when the results of lack of mainainance occur.