Airbus warns about no-deal Brexit
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Hussar54, i guess you're misreading the discussion. It is not about whether the CAA is now a competent authority or if it is 1 second after Brexit. It is about the issue if it is able to follow the same european rules or not. And in a no-deal Brexit it won't be able to do that as the british government reserves itself the right to change those rules on a whim.
Hussar54, i guess you're misreading the discussion. It is not about whether the CAA is now a competent authority or if it is 1 second after Brexit. It is about the issue if it is able to follow the same european rules or not. And in a no-deal Brexit it won't be able to do that as the british government reserves itself the right to change those rules on a whim.
I don't believe that the british government really means to change universally agreed upon aviation rules. It's just like the old (before EU) working relationships between aviation authorities where rules are complied with until/unless equivalent procedures are noticed and agreed. When it comes to aviation, it's not just between the british and the EU, it includes other rule based countries as well..
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I don't believe that the british government really means to change universally agreed upon aviation rules. It's just like the old (before EU) working relationships between aviation authorities where rules are complied with until/unless equivalent procedures are noticed and agreed. When it comes to aviation, it's not just between the british and the EU, it includes other rule based countries as well..
The paper of the Royal Aeronautical Society is really eye opening and very very interesting indeed. It talks about those issues including a rough assessment of the required time frames and additional hiring required for the CAA alone (and every other agency governing an industry sector).
Last edited by Denti; 30th Jun 2018 at 15:08.
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The Swiss have some EU deal that might be some role model for the UK? Traffic rights like some EU country, however their separate authority and with their own CAA legislation. Even cross border ATC.
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But Switzerland pays a fortune into the EEC for i's access - won't go down well in the weirder reaches of the Tory Party.................
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Oh FFS we've covered this repeatedly.
The CAA is only 'competent' because the EASA covers a large range of highly technical aspects that are a requirement for regulators to be able to do. It may be possible to re-intigrate these capabilities in the UK over a longer time scale but the CAA have on lots of occasions stated they CANNOT do this by 'Brexit date' and doubt the cost / benefit of doing it at all.
So our choice is: renew capabilities (can't be done in time) be part of EASA (needs a deal and "not with the UK red lines") or be abandoned by a load of the aviation industry. Guess which one we are heading to.
The CAA is only 'competent' because the EASA covers a large range of highly technical aspects that are a requirement for regulators to be able to do. It may be possible to re-intigrate these capabilities in the UK over a longer time scale but the CAA have on lots of occasions stated they CANNOT do this by 'Brexit date' and doubt the cost / benefit of doing it at all.
So our choice is: renew capabilities (can't be done in time) be part of EASA (needs a deal and "not with the UK red lines") or be abandoned by a load of the aviation industry. Guess which one we are heading to.
Irony....It's called irony....
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Change in aviation happens at a glacial pace compared to many other industries. To suggest that the CAA is competant to deal with aviation matters one day and not the next, due to Brexit, is a nonsense.The same rules and regulations will apply for years before there is any significant divergence between the CAA and EASA. Plenty of time to come up with agreements to ensure cross border compatibility. The FAA don't seem concerned that British aircraft will fall out of the sky the day the UK leaves the EU. Just more political posturing and the chance for extensive and expensive executive negotiations in warmer climes I suspect.
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Change in aviation happens at a glacial pace compared to many other industries. To suggest that the CAA is competant to deal with aviation matters one day and not the next, due to Brexit, is a nonsense.The same rules and regulations will apply for years before there is any significant divergence between the CAA and EASA. Plenty of time to come up with agreements to ensure cross border compatibility. The FAA don't seem concerned that British aircraft will fall out of the sky the day the UK leaves the EU. Just more political posturing and the chance for extensive and expensive executive negotiations in warmer climes I suspect.
Last edited by Denti; 6th Jul 2018 at 03:28.
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Any organisation/company/person that hasn't started moving towards a post no deal exit already deserves what the outcome result's.
I suspect a few think that being unprepared will somehow prevent a default exit.
I suspect a few think that being unprepared will somehow prevent a default exit.
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Taking the discussion to its logical conclusion, in the event of a no deal Brexit, all Airbus aircraft around the world, fitted with British sourced components, will be grounded indefinitely as compliance to EU standards can no longer be demonstrated. This is clearly an absolute nonsense!
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Gouli EASA have already stated that any part/installation that has been fitted before the exit date which has a CoA from one of the 27 countries left and is under that NAA's oversite can continue as before and the part still holds certification. Same with any maint checks or work done by UK maint organisations. Anything afterwards is not compliant.
Where the grey area is, is stock. But as most parts are also FAA certified as well there is a process to use that certification to produce a compliance certificate. But that's a by the by, this is just one part of the on going bluff. Even then NAA's may do a France and ignore the EASA edict. Lets face it some of them will be looking at 50%+ of its air carries going out of business anyway. lest face I think there are under 10 mods between a FAA certified A320 and EASA type certificate and they are mostly to do with seat numbers and ozone filters and the like. Nothing heavy structural or engine related.
Where the grey area is, is stock. But as most parts are also FAA certified as well there is a process to use that certification to produce a compliance certificate. But that's a by the by, this is just one part of the on going bluff. Even then NAA's may do a France and ignore the EASA edict. Lets face it some of them will be looking at 50%+ of its air carries going out of business anyway. lest face I think there are under 10 mods between a FAA certified A320 and EASA type certificate and they are mostly to do with seat numbers and ozone filters and the like. Nothing heavy structural or engine related.
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Taking the discussion to its logical conclusion, in the event of a no deal Brexit, all Airbus aircraft around the world, fitted with British sourced components, will be grounded indefinitely as compliance to EU standards can no longer be demonstrated. This is clearly an absolute nonsense!
The Government's White Paper published last week suggests that the UK will seek to remain an active participant in EASA (albeit without voting rights), making an appropriate financial contribution and becoming a third country member via the established route under Article 66 of the EASA basic regulation, as Switzerland has.
Obviously that is little more than a shopping list at this stage, but it seems a reasonable aspiration.
Obviously that is little more than a shopping list at this stage, but it seems a reasonable aspiration.
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Unfortunately sometimes they actually happen - remember how European airspace was closed for days because they applied THE RULES after that Icelandic volcano went off...................... and there was no get-out clause IIRC
