Heathrow expansion
When a third runway was first mooted for LHR BA were all in favour as it would grant them more landing slots and the ability to grow. Have you noticed now that BA seem to be a bit more reticent about the proposed 3rd runway. Maybe they have just realised that Waterworld is slap bang in the middle of it. So BA are going to have to move to a new HQ wonder where their going to find the land? Madrid maybe!
By the time the first plane leaves the tarmac of the 3rd runway, most/all of the noisiest airframes will have gone and there’ll probably be a significant number of hybrid/electric aeroplanes operating out of LHR.
As pointed out above, the likely location for the new runway is mostly open land that has been left that way for a long time (look at Google maps satellite pic), for this precise reason. Compared with, say, HS2, the impact will be minimal and the benefit more material.
I don’t believe that many people moved into the immediate area of Heathrow in the last 50 years without noticing there was one of the busiest airports in the world there - in fact a large percentage will have done this because of employment caused by LHR. Also, things have come a long way since the days of Concorde, Trident, 1-11 and 737-200 in terms of absolute noise and noise footprint. I lived in West London for a while and was more disturbed by motorbikes, lorries, plus police sirens and helicopters at 2am; the jets got mostly drowned out by the ambient racket...
And I expect they are looking forward to the compensation!
As pointed out above, the likely location for the new runway is mostly open land that has been left that way for a long time (look at Google maps satellite pic), for this precise reason. Compared with, say, HS2, the impact will be minimal and the benefit more material.
I don’t believe that many people moved into the immediate area of Heathrow in the last 50 years without noticing there was one of the busiest airports in the world there - in fact a large percentage will have done this because of employment caused by LHR. Also, things have come a long way since the days of Concorde, Trident, 1-11 and 737-200 in terms of absolute noise and noise footprint. I lived in West London for a while and was more disturbed by motorbikes, lorries, plus police sirens and helicopters at 2am; the jets got mostly drowned out by the ambient racket...
Naah, the whole Waterside/ R3 vulnerability has been a known issue ever since Waterside was planned..
Are words 'No Airport Here' still visible on a railway overbridge near Cheddington?
OK for access to Central London. Not so good for London's residential hinterland.
And I'd try not to be a nimby if it were in Northants.
I live South East of Heathrow near Hampton Court Palace and I have seen a marked increase in noise in my garden in the past few years. Obviously more noticeable in the last 10 days as one is either in the garden during the day or at night have all the windows open. Can notice a huge difference between modern Dreamliners and A380 vs older 747 (my favourite)
I am guessing more frequent when easterly is blowing as they taking off into the wind but not 100% on that
Now don't get me wrong I love aeroplanes and have done all my life (17 years on Pprune and counting) - growing up in South Africa in the 70's it was a special treat to see the daily Boeing go over (the old saying phrase was "Is it too early for a beer? Well has the Boeing gone over yet? - if yes then its not too early!!!)
Can anyone on here suggest a good website to find out what the potential air traffic increase will be for different areas around LHR so we can get an idea of potential degradation of house values?
Google is not helping on this occasion
Many thanks
I am guessing more frequent when easterly is blowing as they taking off into the wind but not 100% on that
Now don't get me wrong I love aeroplanes and have done all my life (17 years on Pprune and counting) - growing up in South Africa in the 70's it was a special treat to see the daily Boeing go over (the old saying phrase was "Is it too early for a beer? Well has the Boeing gone over yet? - if yes then its not too early!!!)
Can anyone on here suggest a good website to find out what the potential air traffic increase will be for different areas around LHR so we can get an idea of potential degradation of house values?
Google is not helping on this occasion
Many thanks
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The alternative proposal to extend the Northern Runway and divide it into two seems a bit wacky but has some interesting people backing it..
https://www.heathrowhub.com/our-proposal.aspx
https://www.heathrowhub.com/our-proposal.aspx
Good luck finding anything remotely definitive. 
If you listened to the expansion debate in Parliament last week, a common theme in the comments from MPs with constituencies in the southeast was the lack of available information on likely flightpaths.
If you listened to the expansion debate in Parliament last week, a common theme in the comments from MPs with constituencies in the southeast was the lack of available information on likely flightpaths.
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I live South East of Heathrow near Hampton Court Palace and I have seen a marked increase in noise in my garden in the past few years. Obviously more noticeable in the last 10 days as one is either in the garden during the day or at night have all the windows open. Can notice a huge difference between modern Dreamliners and A380 vs older 747 (my favourite)
A380s also measure quieter than older 747s, which, given that they are almost one and a half 747s, is pretty good.
However, the one thing I have learnt from 20+ years living only a couple of miles (as stuff flies) from an airport and nearly under flight path, is that annoyance is very very very subjective and dependent on an awful lot of variables. Older jets (so far as I can tell from my limited identification capabilities :-) ) are almost always louder, but it will also depend on engine type, load, fuel load (how far it's going), atmospheric conditions (not just wind), heck on approach the exact point the AT/PF decides to spool up can make the difference between lying in the garden with eyes shut wondering if that was a plane going over or not, and suddenly waking up thinking "thats a loud one". Military is typically louder still (that's big(ish) stuff, don't usually get fighters in, you probably don't get any mil stuff at all at Heathrow) - not just because it's older but also because they don't stick to the usual flight paths and it doesn't sound like they pay the engine mfrs every time they firewall the throttles either...
Ironically the loudest passenger jet (by far) is the one we haven't seen going over since early this century, won't ever again, and I miss it.
Within next decade we'll probably have small hybrid jets, big ones the decade after, and a decade after that (or maybe earlier after the proven "success" with cars) we'll have people campaigning for the noise to be put back in (maybe you'll be able to request they play "old 747" on approach!). When a small jet can almost (not quite) sneak up on you at 100ft it's scary (seen it with BAe 146 in the 80s), if an electric heavy does it it'll cause heart attacks and road accidents and who knows what.
Can anyone on here suggest a good website to find out what the potential air traffic increase will be for different areas around LHR so we can get an idea of potential degradation of house values?
You won't find that exact info though (which may be why google isn't helping) because Heathrow airspace is going to get completely redesigned (with or without R3) so no one knows yet - search for "flight path changes" on the Hacan page for the timetable and consultation process. With or without R3 it'll probably get better for some, worse for some, and quieter overall (continuing the trend), but the complaints will continue because that is what we do in this country - if it was closed tomorrow plenty of people would complain about that.
Officially, Heathrow's measured noise footprint is the smallest ever - New report shows Heathrow's noise footprint at smallest recorded levels - Your Heathrow
But then again, it's the same article that peddles the nonsense about Air India being the "greenest" airline at Heathrow, when it turns out that AI's poor performance for track-keeping and NOx emissions hasn't been factored into the scoring.
Third runway, Boris Island... There is another option, using Northolt Airfield, which is nearer Central London and would enable a few more hundred flights per day. It would also help reduce defence spending, if the RAF were relocated.
I took a photo of a Vulcan Bomber from the West End Road about 60 years ago, and some snooty RAF Gaurdsman (with dog.) told me to 'clear orf' as it was a military area...
.
I took a photo of a Vulcan Bomber from the West End Road about 60 years ago, and some snooty RAF Gaurdsman (with dog.) told me to 'clear orf' as it was a military area...
.
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Having flown into LHR T2 last week, something really needs to be done about the queues in immigration. Took me 2.5 hrs as a non-resident colonial to get through. Add half way through the lineup I came across a sign telling me that the new faster immigration system had arrived. Strewth, I'd hate to see the old one.
Forget the runway. Fix the infrastructure that is there! Surely if tourists bring in billions to the economy then it is the country's interest to encourage them back again.
Forget the runway. Fix the infrastructure that is there! Surely if tourists bring in billions to the economy then it is the country's interest to encourage them back again.
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BA747s are the noisiest
Officially, Heathrow's measured noise footprint is the smallest ever - New report shows Heathrow's noise footprint at smallest recorded levels - Your Heathrow
A380s also measure quieter than older 747s, which, given that they are almost one and a half 747s, is pretty good.
However, the one thing I have learnt from 20+ years living only a couple of miles (as stuff flies) from an airport and nearly under flight path, is that annoyance is very very very subjective and dependent on an awful lot of variables. Older jets (so far as I can tell from my limited identification capabilities :-) ) are almost always louder, but it will also depend on engine type, load, fuel load (how far it's going), atmospheric conditions (not just wind), heck on approach the exact point the AT/PF decides to spool up can make the difference between lying in the garden with eyes shut wondering if that was a plane going over or not, and suddenly waking up thinking "thats a loud one". Military is typically louder still (that's big(ish) stuff, don't usually get fighters in, you probably don't get any mil stuff at all at Heathrow) - not just because it's older but also because they don't stick to the usual flight paths and it doesn't sound like they pay the engine mfrs every time they firewall the throttles either...
Ironically the loudest passenger jet (by far) is the one we haven't seen going over since early this century, won't ever again, and I miss it.
Within next decade we'll probably have small hybrid jets, big ones the decade after, and a decade after that (or maybe earlier after the proven "success" with cars) we'll have people campaigning for the noise to be put back in (maybe you'll be able to request they play "old 747" on approach!). When a small jet can almost (not quite) sneak up on you at 100ft it's scary (seen it with BAe 146 in the 80s), if an electric heavy does it it'll cause heart attacks and road accidents and who knows what.
Heathrow's own website, and Hacan - HACAN A voice for those under Heathrow flightpaths have a lot of info.
You won't find that exact info though (which may be why google isn't helping) because Heathrow airspace is going to get completely redesigned (with or without R3) so no one knows yet - search for "flight path changes" on the Hacan page for the timetable and consultation process. With or without R3 it'll probably get better for some, worse for some, and quieter overall (continuing the trend), but the complaints will continue because that is what we do in this country - if it was closed tomorrow plenty of people would complain about that.
A380s also measure quieter than older 747s, which, given that they are almost one and a half 747s, is pretty good.
However, the one thing I have learnt from 20+ years living only a couple of miles (as stuff flies) from an airport and nearly under flight path, is that annoyance is very very very subjective and dependent on an awful lot of variables. Older jets (so far as I can tell from my limited identification capabilities :-) ) are almost always louder, but it will also depend on engine type, load, fuel load (how far it's going), atmospheric conditions (not just wind), heck on approach the exact point the AT/PF decides to spool up can make the difference between lying in the garden with eyes shut wondering if that was a plane going over or not, and suddenly waking up thinking "thats a loud one". Military is typically louder still (that's big(ish) stuff, don't usually get fighters in, you probably don't get any mil stuff at all at Heathrow) - not just because it's older but also because they don't stick to the usual flight paths and it doesn't sound like they pay the engine mfrs every time they firewall the throttles either...
Ironically the loudest passenger jet (by far) is the one we haven't seen going over since early this century, won't ever again, and I miss it.
Within next decade we'll probably have small hybrid jets, big ones the decade after, and a decade after that (or maybe earlier after the proven "success" with cars) we'll have people campaigning for the noise to be put back in (maybe you'll be able to request they play "old 747" on approach!). When a small jet can almost (not quite) sneak up on you at 100ft it's scary (seen it with BAe 146 in the 80s), if an electric heavy does it it'll cause heart attacks and road accidents and who knows what.
Heathrow's own website, and Hacan - HACAN A voice for those under Heathrow flightpaths have a lot of info.
You won't find that exact info though (which may be why google isn't helping) because Heathrow airspace is going to get completely redesigned (with or without R3) so no one knows yet - search for "flight path changes" on the Hacan page for the timetable and consultation process. With or without R3 it'll probably get better for some, worse for some, and quieter overall (continuing the trend), but the complaints will continue because that is what we do in this country - if it was closed tomorrow plenty of people would complain about that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...ust-10-people/
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interestingly, some of the highest suburban house prices are within the “noise envelope” - Kew, Richmond borough and iris clear that a high percentage of noise complaints come from a tiny proportion of the people.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...ust-10-people/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...ust-10-people/
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I have lived within 10 miles of LHR all my life.
We bought our first house in 1965 near Hounslow East tube station, between the two flight paths so am well aware of a/c noise.
I saw an early Concorde on an approach to LHR after diverting due to poor weather at its Bristol base.
It suddenly appeared beneath the clouds on approach and guess what, I saw no reports of it or mention of the noise.
Similarly, the last visitor, as far as I am aware, with a loud bark, was the RAF VIP VC10 which was the last reminder of really noisey a/c.
Again, I am not aware of any complaints.
I agree it is a small number complaining but their house prices are still soaring.
We bought our first house in 1965 near Hounslow East tube station, between the two flight paths so am well aware of a/c noise.
I saw an early Concorde on an approach to LHR after diverting due to poor weather at its Bristol base.
It suddenly appeared beneath the clouds on approach and guess what, I saw no reports of it or mention of the noise.
Similarly, the last visitor, as far as I am aware, with a loud bark, was the RAF VIP VC10 which was the last reminder of really noisey a/c.
Again, I am not aware of any complaints.
I agree it is a small number complaining but their house prices are still soaring.
January 1946 expansion plans:
What's your point ?
With todays high bypass engines noise is not the factor it used to be during turbojet or Concorde days when the noise debate began. Future approach patterns can be even made more quiet with steeper climbs and descents and curved precision routings.
Facing BREXIT I'd say expanding Heathrow is the only way to go in order to not lose even more business. You can bet otherwise the continent is ready to eat your lunch.
Facing BREXIT I'd say expanding Heathrow is the only way to go in order to not lose even more business. You can bet otherwise the continent is ready to eat your lunch.
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East London (AMS, which is the main intercontinental hub for the UK population living outside the London area) is now also at a capacity limit, so competition should not be so fierce.
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I dislike Heathrow as it is so may join him. M25 jammed up takes ages to get there parking is expensive, miles for passengers to walk risk to London built up areas of the unthinkable increased. I am sure it is economically sensible for the building work and employment at the airport dont see how else..Where will all the new passengers go pedestrians are already falling over each other in London!
There is more point to point traffic, even narrowbodies have got transatlantic range these days and many continental airports are ready to grow. Amsterdam has the new runway and expands the terminal, Frankfurt is getting ready with T3, Zürich get's more Swiss widebodies just to name a few. Just BER seems to be of no concern for some long time to come.
But some LHR expansion debate over 50 years feels almost "german". You had a third runway that got never used hadn't you?
But some LHR expansion debate over 50 years feels almost "german". You had a third runway that got never used hadn't you?
East London (AMS, which is the main intercontinental hub for the UK population living outside the London area)
