KLM Pilot jailed in Norway for alcohol intake on night stop
Ancient Mariner - totally agree with you. If he is over he deserves to be convicted. I was merely pointing out that you can be over without being stone drunk 8 hours before.
Equally BluSdUp - I am defending nobody, merely pointing out that this chap has been accused but not convicted and that Norway has the same rules as everyone else except they dont give bail.
Please read the thread properly before making accusations.
Equally BluSdUp - I am defending nobody, merely pointing out that this chap has been accused but not convicted and that Norway has the same rules as everyone else except they dont give bail.
Please read the thread properly before making accusations.
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Ph
He DID try to fly while impaired, according to prosecutor ( Two breathalyzer test, then a blood test that takes a few days to analyze). And You condone that!!
He hung himself , dude !
We have had a fair law system for ca 1400 years, it was the spring assembly were all men could settle all disputes among equals. Stringing people up in a tree is not a pastime here!
He DID try to fly while impaired, according to prosecutor ( Two breathalyzer test, then a blood test that takes a few days to analyze). And You condone that!!
He hung himself , dude !
We have had a fair law system for ca 1400 years, it was the spring assembly were all men could settle all disputes among equals. Stringing people up in a tree is not a pastime here!
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according to prosecutor
We have had a fair law system for ca 1400 years
Last edited by BizJetJock; 1st Jun 2018 at 21:58. Reason: spelling
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BizBoy
You clever boy ,you.
You got me, I am more a" String Him Up" kinda guy! I was talking about Norway and its court system, not my private one!
I have been accused of being the reincarnation of Eigil Skalagrimson that sailed to Island from were I now live.
Google him , and you get an idea of my attitude!
Zigar is in the mail!
Cheers
Cpt B
You got me, I am more a" String Him Up" kinda guy! I was talking about Norway and its court system, not my private one!
I have been accused of being the reincarnation of Eigil Skalagrimson that sailed to Island from were I now live.
Google him , and you get an idea of my attitude!
Zigar is in the mail!
Cheers
Cpt B
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Two breathalyzer test, then a blood test that takes a few days to analyse.
I'm undergoing some heavy medical treatment that requires regular blood tests before each stage. Often there are 8-16 ampules taken. All test results are known within 90mins. And I'm not the only one there. A few days? Come on. Are there not machines for auto-festing? There are for many other blood parameters. Keeping someone in clink for days while a (I suppose) simple blood test is done seems OTT.
I'm undergoing some heavy medical treatment that requires regular blood tests before each stage. Often there are 8-16 ampules taken. All test results are known within 90mins. And I'm not the only one there. A few days? Come on. Are there not machines for auto-festing? There are for many other blood parameters. Keeping someone in clink for days while a (I suppose) simple blood test is done seems OTT.
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ph-sbe makes some valid points but
"I guess that all I'm saying here is: give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty, and don't hang him out to dry as if he was sentenced to life in prison already. "
might well be the case in the US but in Norway (and other places) that's not how it works - fail the Breathalyzer and you are effectively convicted - it's only the sentence to be decided - much like running a red light in small-town Arkansas
As ever it's the individuals responsibility to know and obey the law WHEREVER they are, - home or abroad
"I guess that all I'm saying here is: give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty, and don't hang him out to dry as if he was sentenced to life in prison already. "
might well be the case in the US but in Norway (and other places) that's not how it works - fail the Breathalyzer and you are effectively convicted - it's only the sentence to be decided - much like running a red light in small-town Arkansas
As ever it's the individuals responsibility to know and obey the law WHEREVER they are, - home or abroad
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ph-sbe makes some valid points but
"I guess that all I'm saying here is: give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty, and don't hang him out to dry as if he was sentenced to life in prison already. "
might well be the case in the US but in Norway (and other places) that's not how it works - fail the Breathalyzer and you are effectively convicted - it's only the sentence to be decided - much like running a red light in small-town Arkansas
"I guess that all I'm saying here is: give the man the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty, and don't hang him out to dry as if he was sentenced to life in prison already. "
might well be the case in the US but in Norway (and other places) that's not how it works - fail the Breathalyzer and you are effectively convicted - it's only the sentence to be decided - much like running a red light in small-town Arkansas
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Curious. If he is proven not guilty and released does he have any claim for e.g. loss of earnings and any other work or social disruptions? Or is it a case of 'that's the way the law is here, mate, so live with it'?
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I would think he could make a claim against the Norwegians to get a compensation for his period in jail, loss of income, etc. At the same time I don’t think the authorities would lock him up if they were in doubt about his alcohol level. What works in his favor is the time spent between breathalyzer and blood sample. I would imagine they need to transport him somewhere to do that. That could mean another hour where his alcohol level is reduced further. Assuming he did not drink just before duty.
I Have Control
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Common Sense
Seems to be in short supply on this issue. Interpretation of the law seems to be part of the problem. As ever.
No drink, no cry in Norway anyhow.
No drink, no cry in Norway anyhow.
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A) I don't condone flying while impaired.
and, most importantly
B) What I'm saying is not that he is not guilty of the charges. What I'm saying is that a breathalyzer test is not as accurate as a BAC determination based on blood drawn by a professional, and that since the chap was only barely over the limit, professionals should give the man the benefit of the doubt before publicly lynching him.
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As far as I know, the custody was set for 14 days. No information about a possible extension of custody or release from jail found.
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Yes, and it is a showstopper if you test positive as a pilot with an FAA medical.
We want to make it perfectly clear that the state initiatives will have no bearing on the Department of Transportation’s regulated drug testing program. The Department of Transportation’s Drug and Alcohol Testing Regulation – 49 CFR Part 40 – does not authorize the use of Schedule I drugs, including marijuana, for any reason.
Therefore, Medical Review Officers (MROs) will not verify a drug test as negative based upon learning that the employee used “recreational marijuana” when states have passed “recreational marijuana” initiatives. We also firmly reiterate that an MRO will not verify a drug test negative based upon information that a physician recommended that the employee use “medical marijuana” when states have passed “medical marijuana” initiatives.
https://www.transportation.gov/odapc...rijuana-notice
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...icy/qa_sse/a3/
DOT OFFICE OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL POLICY AND COMPLIANCE NOTICE
Recently, some states passed initiatives to permit use of marijuana for so-called “recreational” purposes. We have had several inquiries about whether these state initiatives will have an impact upon the Department of Transportation’s longstanding regulation about the use of marijuana by safety‐sensitive transportation employees – pilots, school bus drivers, truck drivers, train engineers, subway operators, aircraft maintenance personnel, transit fire‐armed security personnel, ship captains, and pipeline emergency response personnel, among others.We want to make it perfectly clear that the state initiatives will have no bearing on the Department of Transportation’s regulated drug testing program. The Department of Transportation’s Drug and Alcohol Testing Regulation – 49 CFR Part 40 – does not authorize the use of Schedule I drugs, including marijuana, for any reason.
Therefore, Medical Review Officers (MROs) will not verify a drug test as negative based upon learning that the employee used “recreational marijuana” when states have passed “recreational marijuana” initiatives. We also firmly reiterate that an MRO will not verify a drug test negative based upon information that a physician recommended that the employee use “medical marijuana” when states have passed “medical marijuana” initiatives.
Aside from any state law pertaining to the use of marijuana within a state, it is important to be aware that the FAA's regulation [14 CFR § 120.33(b)], expressly prohibits you from performing a safety-sensitive function for a certificate holder while having a prohibited drug, which includes marijuana and marijuana metabolites, in your system. If you are a pilot, a verified positive drug test result for marijuana on a required DOT/FAA test will make you unqualified to hold an FAA-issued medical certificate.
SkyGod
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Why do you ask? Are American pilots regularly tested for cannabis? Statistically they seem to pose a greater risk than the Dutch.. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/m...most-cannabis/
Last edited by TowerDog; 11th Jun 2018 at 21:07.
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The pilot has now been fired bij KLM. The verdict by the civil judge states he had bloodtested for 0.35 BAC initially, and 0.27 BAC later on. There is no court ruling yet in Norway, as far as I am concerned.