Air France on the ropes (again)?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Netherlands
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KLM is not so worried about AF if they would collaps. The biggest fear is when Delta would say goodbye because that's the biggest moneymaker for KLM and in the end for AF and ofcourse who go on strike. I believe that when AF would go down it opens better opportunities for KLM then it has today.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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AF does not deserve to exist for a multitude of reasons.
As someone who speaks directly to the pilots each and every day, I will also never, ever take an AF flight.
The poster above had it right. 1st world airline, 3rd world safety record.
As someone who speaks directly to the pilots each and every day, I will also never, ever take an AF flight.
The poster above had it right. 1st world airline, 3rd world safety record.
As a passenger it's the arrogance or condescension of Air France cabin crew that drove me away. As a professional with way too many years in this business, the difference in safety culture between the two carriers (KLM and AF) is astonishing in this supposedly enlightened world of proactive safety management
Join Date: Jun 2001
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One pilot does not make it the rule but this does draw a parallel to AF 447.
I am also an AF avoider for safety reasons. Even after the inexcusable loss of AF447, there was a succession of incidents (Alpha floor activation etc.) showing that the AF training and standards staff did not recognise the problem that was staring them in the face. I am told that AF pilots are briefed pre-LPC on exact nature of the emergency they will get, when it will occur and what the expected solution is - all as a result of union pressure. That goes some way to explaining the lack of ability and knowledge that others are finding with ex-AF people. And the national influence in EASA suggests it's not going to be tackled soon.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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It’s about time Air France disappeared without trace. It’s an appalling airline with arrogant cabin staff and a safety record to be ashamed of. I was very disappointed when AF became the lead in the merger with KLM - it devalued KLMs réputation in my eyes and I dreaded that they would sink to the same low standards as AF. Thank goodness that didn’t happen, but I would be very happy if this leads to the end of the JV. Now that I’m old and have to pay my own airfares, I’d rather fly with KLM even if it costs me more (which is rarely the case). I feel safer flying with many of the airlines I fly with in developing countries than I do with Air Chance.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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The end of Air France is the best thing that could happen to KLM. The oh-so-wise financial people who brought about that dysfunctional merger didn't understand the huge cultural differences between those two countries and those two entitities. I fly KLM very often internationally. In many cases I could choose Air France and save both time and money. I (and many other frequent flyers) will not do that. Enough said.
This was covered in the Business publications at the time.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Couldn't agree more schweizer2. The FR and other loco guys that join our airline are often the most vocal when it comes to enforcing working conditions and having a good moan. Shame they didn't practice what they preach earlier in their careers.
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Shame professionals didn't do the same 10-20 years ago and failed to saveguard terms and conditions.Too easy to blame those starting their careers. Get a grip.
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Crews in company X can't stop new pilots joining company Y at worst terms, thus forcing company X to try reduce terms in its own airline.
As Schweizer has correctly pointed out in some countries it is extremely difficult, to say the least, to take action on behalf of employees or prospective employees of another company, and if we did try and restrict “employee supply” (cf. perhaps the UK’s BMA) then I am absolutely 100% certain that many of the newbies who will “do anything to get into aviation” would be screaming from the roof tops that older pilots were blocking them from getting into the industry..and TBH it is their right to work for pants T&Cs.
To all of those who are concerned about AF flying record: Yes up until 2012 it seems they were in a mess but currently they are doing ok or at least they stay out trouble - they use the aircraft after the landing so they are ok in my books.
You can get very close to disaster without the aircraft ever being the problem and very usable after landing...
Join Date: Nov 2005
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While perhaps the long landing in a driving rainstorm was ill-advised, the actions of the AF cabin crew to completely evacuate the cabin through a partial collection of exits with growing fires and within a minute or two without major injuries has been considered exemplary.
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While perhaps the long landing in a driving rainstorm was ill-advised, the actions of the AF cabin crew to completely evacuate the cabin through a partial collection of exits with growing fires and within a minute or two without major injuries has been considered exemplary.
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Did you read my post? I did not excuse the flight deck crew from perhaps making a severely wrong decision with respect to their landing. But others on this thread have been slagging on AF cabin crew, too. I was only noting that in this instance, the cabin crew is viewed to have performed extremely well. And as you know, cabin crew are "here primarily for your safety."
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Did you read my post? I did not excuse the flight deck crew from perhaps making a severely wrong decision with respect to their landing. But others on this thread have been slagging on AF cabin crew, too. I was only noting that in this instance, the cabin crew is viewed to have performed extremely well. And as you know, cabin crew are "here primarily for your safety."
Last edited by tsgas; 9th May 2018 at 22:06.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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like the big mess with the extremely unstable 380 approach and subsequent mess during the go-around at JFK, a few of the same type automation mis-management events on other fleets...passengers never hear to these things and are blissfully unaware..
