EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

[Fly Aiprt]

Originally Posted by Raski

It will never happen.
Worst case scenario, UK CAA like Swiss.
External member of EASA.

Isn't it the CAA's job to tell its stakeholders what it devised/negociated/organized for the event that is supposed to take place in less than 100 days from now ?
What does the CAA say concerning licenses, certification etc. ? They should be very busy by now, implementing whatever plan they have prepared.
That is, if they have prepared something...

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Raski

It will never happen.
Worst case scenario, UK CAA like Swiss.
External member of EASA.

After a hard BREXIT? Not really a chance to be honest. After the UK has paid its dues, has agreed to the backstop in Ireland, guaranteed in law (and not only politicians words) the rights of all EU citizens in the UK, not only those that fit in an arbitrarily designed settlement process only available on Android devices, it might be possible. After the UK has agreed, same as switzerland, to full freedom of movement and continuing to pay into the EU the full (non-discounted) membership fee for the single market which they would have to join it is pretty much a given. But only then.

Remember, the EU is there to protect the interests of its members, not those of others outside of it, especially not those of ex members that left with producing an almighty mess. And yes, switzerland has some firsthand experience of that, remember that they voted against freedom of movement in a referendum, and yet, it is still there. And the swiss stock exchange lost all access to the EU recently because switzerland didn't want to agree to certain rule changes vis a vis the EU.

In other words, am I still able to work in the EU as a commercial pilot with a UK CAA licence (issued before brexit)

If the UK will be an EASA member (and be in the single market, fall under the auspices of the European Court of Justice etc) then yes. If the UK leaves without a deal the license will not be recognised, not even a day (unlike maintenance licenses) as the EU pointed out quite pointedly. After all, there are enough pilots in the EU. In the extremely unlikely case that the UK will be still within EASA but not fall under any other EU regulations, then, no, because you do not have the right to reside and work in the EU as a UK citizen. Of course, if you have EU citizenship, then yes, that could happen. But again, that is extremely unlikely.

[woptb]

Originally Posted by Mickey Kaye

And what about if a post brexit CAA say from now on we approve the individual not the organisation?

Maintainance would suddenly become a whole lot easier.

It will never happen, not least to allow us to maintain bilaterals that come after Brexit,to comply with ICAO SARPS and to maintain any form of credibility!

[zondaracer]

Asking because I have no idea...
Are there any countries that do a SOLI transfer without any ratings current? The ones I contacted so far require at least one rating to be current.

[PAX_Britannica]

Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt

Isn't it the CAA's job to tell its stakeholders what it devised/negociated/organized for the event that is supposed to take place in less than 100 days from now ?
What does the CAA say concerning licenses, certification etc. ?

You mean, like providing a website which discusses Brexit-related issues: https://info.caa.co.uk/brexit/ ?

[Bueno Hombre]

Originally Posted by PAX_Britannica

You mean, like providing a website which discusses Brexit-related issues: https://info.caa.co.uk/brexit/ ?

Yes. Thanks for the link.

[Alex Whittingham]

Well, the CAA have a sitting Brexit commitee of very senior bods. Naturally one can't actually contact them to ask questions or direct their attention to issues they may have missed because, well, you can't contact anyone in the CAA other than your designated point of contact. Reports from the shop floor indicate the committee are paralysed by fear because Grant Shapps is now Secretary of State and he, apparently, has a history of asking CAA officials difficult questions. So, although a number of strategies have been proposed by the shop floor, in many areas the 'go' decision in any direction has yet to be made by the committee and work has not gone beyond vague statements of intent. There may well not be enough time remaining to actually complete it. Meanwhile in EASA land the EC have told the officials not to give any help to the UK and so they too sit paralysed by fear, wishing to be helpful, but not wanting to risk their jobs. I'm sure it will turn out fine.

[Fly Aiprt]

Originally Posted by PAX_Britannica

You mean, like providing a website which discusses Brexit-related issues: https://info.caa.co.uk/brexit/ ?

Thanks for the link.
As a quick recap, in case of no-deal, the CAA would recognize EU approvals and licenses for "up to 2 years".
Not sure of who will decide the actual duration of this transition period. Maybe the PM ?
They confirm that UK commercial pilots could (should ?) change the state of issue of their EASA license prior to Brexit...

[Alex Whittingham]

TBH the SOLI question appears to be no brainer. If you transfer your SOLI the UK will recognise everything for up to two years and on application issue you a parallel UK PART-FCL licence (no details available). If you keep the UK as your SOLI you get only the UK PART-FCL licence (no details available)

[Kak Klaxon]

Thanks Alex, I have asked for a validation to fly G REG on my SOLI license. They don’t know how that’s going to work yet. I am flying on a Far East trip 31 into 1st.

Happy days.......may write my own validation in crayon on the back of the plog.

[kontrolor]

it is simple - if there hard brexit, UK licence will not be valid in EU. It may well be in the USA on the other hand....

[SJH1]

I feel I was a bit late to the party with the state of licence issue advice unfortunately. Having read the advice though, it seems like the wisest thing to do. Especially with the potential delay bill being passed through parliament tonight, which would extend the deadline for the state of licence issue process to be completed.


Just a question though. Should we leave No Deal on October 31st, as a holder of what would then become a UK Part-FCL PPL (with insufficient time between now and then to change states), what would be the likely process be to change states post Brexit??


Hopefully there's a delay which allows for my change of state, but asking just in case there's not.

[RedDragonFlyer]

Does anyone know this current Johnson deal affects pilots and student in regards to EASA/ CAA?

Will the UK remain in EASA during the transition period?

International treaties are not really in my realm of expertise and I've seen no articles online about it.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Originally Posted by RedDragonFlyer

Does anyone know this current Johnson deal affects pilots and student in regards to EASA/ CAA?.

No.

(Plenty of people will speculate, and some claim inside information, but nobody knows.)

[Skyjob]

what would be the likely process be to change states post Brexit??

You will require a full application from the like of any third country status applicant, as intra-EASA transfer of licence will not be able to change anymore.
See it a s full initial each time...

[Pinuz89]

Originally Posted by Skyjob

You will require a full application from the like of any third country status applicant, as intra-EASA transfer of licence will not be able to change anymore.
See it a s full initial each time...

This scenario is only in case of a no-deal, in case of a deal, depend on the deal itself.

[rwm]

I am currently writing the Part 66 exams in the UK via the CAA. I already have Canadian AME M1 & M2, and FAA A&P licenses. I hope to have these exams complete before the end of the year. I have not seen anything that states that it won't be an EASA part 66 license, only that:

"EU exit
Please note that, in the event of UK participation in EASA and mutual recognition of licences and certificates ceasing, some CAA website content and application forms may continue to carry the EASA logo or reference the EU or EASA rather than the UK CAA in the short term. These will be updated in due course following the outcome of the transition period negotiations on the long-term aviation relationship between the UK and the EU. In the meantime, the guidance provided and the application forms accessed via the CAA website portal will continue to be valid."

I have read other places that nothing will change until 31 Dec 2020 and therefore a license issued in the UK will still be an EASA part 66. Does anyone know if this is still true?

Is there an easier place to write the exams that I won't need to worry about having to convert or write a different license again? I'm a bit concerned as this covid-19 issue has caused some concerns with how long travel will be restricted making it difficult for me to complete the license before the door closes.

[W Smith]

rwm - You seem to have missed the fundamemtal point here. An EASA licence is only an EASA licence if it is issued and administered by the competent authority of a Member State. The UK government has said that the UK CAA will cease to be a part of the EASA system in December. That will mean that every licence that the CAA HAS EVER ISSUED WILL CEASE TO BE A VALID EASA LICENCE on that date. It makes no difference what it says on the licence, it will not be valid for working on EASA aircraft, any more than a licence issued by Russia, Australia, or the USA with "EASA" printed on it would be an EASA licence.
If you get an EASA Part 66 licence (or a Part-FCLpilot licence) issued by the CAA before it leaves EASA you will be an "existing holder of a UK issued EASA licence". The only way to preserve the EU privileges of an EASA licence issued by the UK CAA is to have it reissued by another EASA State before it ceases to be a valid EASA licence. That is why there is so much stuff on the CAA website telling people how to move their licences to other countries - in the jargon 'change the State of Licence Issue (SOLI)"
On the CAA website is a section specific to Brexit -
i.e. The page 'Our-work - About-us - Brexit'
Halfway down that page there is a bullet point which reads:

• UK-issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but only those contained in EU Regulation 2019/494 will continue to have validity within the EU system, as defined by that regulation.

If you look up EU Regulation 2019/494 you will find that in the Annex to the Regulation it lists the UK issued licences and approvals that will remain valid for a limited period. If you refer to that Annex you will find that it DOES NOT include Part 66 licences nor does it include Part-FCL pilot licences. They will all cease to be valid in the EU.
That is why thousands of UK licensed pilots and engineers have made sure they have had their UK EASA licences re-issued by other countries - such as the Republic of Ireland and Austria (because Easyjet is changing from a British to an Austrian airline because of Brexit).
That same page on the CAA website says:

• All licences issued by the CAA under EU legislation, and all type approval certificates and third country approvals issued by EASA under EU legislation, will continue to have validity under UK law, provided they were effective immediately before 1 January 2021.

This is consistent with the reality that an EASA Part 66 licence issued by the UK CAA will become a UK national licence, still valid for G registered aircraft, but ONLY valid for G registered aircraft. These licences will not be valid for aircraft registered outside the UK unless other countries sign new agreements to make UK national licences valid for aircraft on their registers. Probably not a priority for anyone in the current crisis.
The advice is simple (and you will find it implied on the UK CAA website if you look hard enough).
If you want to work on or fly aircraft that are registered in EASA Member States after this year, get yourself a licence issued by an EU Member State, not the UK CAA.

[covec]

Icelanta.

Sorry that an exercise in Democracy should upset you so.

Yep. Consequences. Big Boys Rules.

For where I live...may be a moot point. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

In any case, my FI work is on G registered aircraft.

Red Dragon Flyer: train and get examined in non-UK EU States.

Curious though. All this talk of “if no deal” no UK licensed pilot can fly in EU countries begs the question: and what of EASA licensed pilots flying in the UK?