EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

[zerograv]

they must be crazy busy

Also think so ! When I went there to get my licence, there were pilots (fresh CPLs) that are joining Ryan, that were swapping from an EU Authority (not the UK) to Ireland, because Ryan probably demands that their crew to have IAA licences. Therefore if everyone that works at Ryan has to have an IAA licence, that already gives them some work to do. If you add ASL, Stobart and Air Lingus, then they probably already have more than enough work to do, without the people that are jumping from the UK to Ireland.

or are UK operators now encouraging their pilots to get eu easa licences so as to hedge their bets?

Read somewhere in here, some months ago, that Easy asked 1400 of their pilots to swap their licences from the UK to Austria.

simple adding of endorsement

Nebojsar

If you wouldn't mind the question, when you say "simple adding of endorsement", this means that you are adding a new rating to your licence, or you did an LPC and the Examiner choose not to endorse the licence, and therefore you have to apply for a new licence ? In my view the first possibility is slightly more work for the IAA, then the second possibility. Will have to do an LPC sometime in the near future , hence my curiosity ...

[nebojsar]

Originally Posted by zerograv

If you wouldn't mind the question, when you say "simple adding of endorsement", this means that you are adding a new rating to your licence, or you did an LPC and the Examiner choose not to endorse the licence, and therefore you have to apply for a new licence ? In my view the first possibility is slightly more work for the IAA, then the second possibility. Will have to do an LPC sometime in the near future , hence my curiosity ...

I had skill test and waiting TR to be endorsed on license. I don't think it is much more job than other regular endorsement. If other CAA's can do it in 7 days timeframe I suppose every CAA can do it as well. I asked about paid express service as in UK CAA, they don't have it, so I need to be patient

[SFIM]

If other CAA's can do it in 7 days timeframe I suppose every CAA can do it as well.

the UK CAA don’t do anything in 7 days in my experience, I have had the misfortune to have asked for a licence verification letter many times and it always takes a month.
i believe the UK CAA are saying 19 working days to turn around the Doc 155 and send it to the IAA (or wherever)
however the IAA seem to be making the initial request more or less immediately which is nice.

[nebojsar]

Originally Posted by SFIM

the UK CAA don’t do anything in 7 days in my experience, I have had the misfortune to have asked for a licence verification letter many times and it always takes a month.

I was not speaking about UK caa, but other easa caa's of my colleagues. I heard about UK caa, but at least you have there express service option.

[zerograv]

Nebojsar

Thanks for your feedback ! It certainly sounds an awful long time to add a TR to a licence.

Admittedly, up to last year, the UK CAA used to be very good. Was always able to get everything done on same day, often in 1 morning, or less, by using "Same day service". As long as all the paperwork was correct, there would be no problems. This year the whole hell broke loose ...

[nord121]

Hello all,

I’ve been following this thread for a while now and am just about to complete my PPL under Austro Control. issuing me an Austrian PPL.

My intention is to move straight onto ATPL’s and it seems the sensible thing to do is do them with an EASA member state, BBS are offering this from the UK however my main choice is probably Bartolini air... regardless is this a good idea for the following reson? If I get my ATPL from an EASA country and then after Brexit do not have the right to live or work in that country (British National). Would that not mean the EASA ATPL’s have been for nothing? On the other hand assuming you gain employment with an airline in the EU you can then live there.

Then what if I wanted to fly in the UK again has it been announced if it’s possible to transfer EASA to CAA?

I plead ignorance but there’s a lot to take in here and I’m trying to make the most informed decision I possible can. If you were to begin your ATPL exams next year where would you go?

Cheers in advance.

[Denti]

Originally Posted by nord121

Hello all,

I’ve been following this thread for a while now and am just about to complete my PPL under Austro Control. issuing me an Austrian PPL.

My intention is to move straight onto ATPL’s and it seems the sensible thing to do is do them with an EASA member state, BBS are offering this from the UK however my main choice is probably Bartolini air... regardless is this a good idea for the following reson? If I get my ATPL from an EASA country and then after Brexit do not have the right to live or work in that country (British National). Would that not mean the EASA ATPL’s have been for nothing? On the other hand assuming you gain employment with an airline in the EU you can then live there.

Then what if I wanted to fly in the UK again has it been announced if it’s possible to transfer EASA to CAA?

I plead ignorance but there’s a lot to take in here and I’m trying to make the most informed decision I possible can. If you were to begin your ATPL exams next year where would you go?

Cheers in advance.

If you do not already reside in an EU country by the time the UK leaves (either at the end of the transition period or next march) you won't have the right to live and work in the EU. Come to think of it, in the case of an unorderly brexit you won't have the right anyway. However, a caveat that many miss, even if you have the right to live and work in an EU country, you do not have the right to live and work in any other EU country, only in the one where you have residency as you are a third country citizen, pretty much the same as any refugee that got granted to reside. Unless the UK changes their stance on freedom of movement of course. Which will get messy with the orange outfit as their UK national pilots cannot move from one countries anymore, same for the irish one i guess.

As far as i know the UK CAA will accept EASA licenses to transfer them into UK ones, but who knows how that will change?

[boeingdriver777]

Maybe a small reprieve coming for 9 months in the event of a No Deal. Just need the defination of “Certain Aviation Safety Licenses”

Transport

The Commission has today adopted two measures that will avoid full interruption of air traffic between the EU and the UK in the event of no deal. These measures will only ensure basic connectivity and in no means replicate the significant advantages of membership of the Single European Sky. This is subject to the UK conferring equivalent rights to EU air carriers, as well as the UK ensuring conditions of fair competition.

• A proposal for a Regulation to ensure temporarily (for 12 months) the provision of certain air services between the UK and the EU.
• A proposal for a Regulation to extend temporarily (for 9 months) the validity of certain aviation safety licences.

[Alex Whittingham]

The detail seems to be in these documents which I cannot find:

v Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on common rules ensuring basic air connectivity with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 893 final).
vi Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on certain aspects of aviation safety with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 894 final).

[BONES_]

European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors

assuming “flight crew licences” can be somehow tagged along, looks like a 9-month grace period which I queried somewhere on this thread awhile ago.

Hopefully, now that some legal framework exist, EASA will give further guidance.

[Milutin]

Aviation – safety 12.
What does the Commission's proposal on aviation safety concretely include?

In case of no deal, the Commission’s proposal for a Regulation:

*extends for a limited period of time – 9 months – the validity of certain certificates (in particular type certificates) that can only be issued by the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) on the basis of certificates issued by the UK once it is a third country.
*ensures that parts and appliances, for which a certificate of conformity was issued by a UK company before the withdrawal date, can still be used in and on aircraft although the company that issued the certificate is no longer entitled to issue new certificates.

[EastMids]

While seemingly some respite is being provided on licences, there are some other restrictions:

...the total seasonal capacity to be provided by UK air carriers for routes between the United Kingdom and each Member State shall not exceed the total number of frequencies operated by those carriers on those routes during respectively the IATA winter and summer seasons of the year of 2018.

Seemingly no frequency growth allowed next year - not that its likely to be needed? This would also seem to prohibit the opening of new routes.

The Member States shall neither negotiate nor enter into any bilateral agreements or arrangements with the United Kingdom on matters falling within the scope of this Regulation. They shall not otherwise grant UK air carriers, in connection with air transport, any rights other than those granted by this Regulation.

And no back-door one-to-one deals.

UK air carriers shall submit the operational plans, programmes and schedules for air services to the competent authorities of each Member State concerned, for their approval. Any such submission shall be made at least 30 days prior to the start of the operations.

[512]

A question, as a no deal Brexit is been discussed more seriously. What will Ryanair do on 29th March 2019 at 23:00?

512

[eu01]

...will cancel most of UK flights departing after 2pm and commence the AC translocation to Ireland and Continental Europe?

[sewushr]

No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.

So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it

[EastMids]

Originally Posted by sewushr

No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.

So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it

Indeed... quote: "...the capacity which United Kingdom air carriers will be allowed to offer is frozen at pre-Brexit levels expressed in number of flights ("frequencies")." I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.

More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union"

No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.

[rightstuffer]

Brexit

Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing.

[Skyjob]

Originally Posted by EastMids

I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.

100% correct, but UK people voted for this or even worse outcome (eg no deal at all thus grounding flights or nil reciprocation)

Originally Posted by EastMids

No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.

Ryanair has launched UK subsidiary for the event so domestic routes can remain to be facilitated. Depending agreement other aircraft may join its UK register to enable UK-EU flights departing from UK afterwards. Worse case and no deal emerges, then aircraft can be relocated to EU markets.
BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered.
Stobart Air will have issues with intra UK routes, unless it acts as Ryanair has done, using a UK AOC, or continue operating by routing aircraft through an out of UK location (IE?)
West Atlantic as per BMI, unless aircraft are flying to/from UK on each flight... SE-reg aircraft no intra UK flights...

Sad state of affairs, especially to think people wanted this to happen...

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by rightstuffer

Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing.

In the context of what was announced yesterday which airlines in the EU27 do you think will find their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted?

[homonculus]

Why are you so certain the UK will reciprocate? We could simply maintain the status quo, especially if it doesnt effect UK businesses. We do not have to increase any paperwork or checks at borders, we do not have to change any rules nor stop any current practices unless WE wish to. Now I accept that is the logical way forward, and politicians seem to lack logic at present but.....