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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

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EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:59
  #661 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Denti View Post
Well, because the authority having oversight of that license is no longer under the authority of EASA of course. As the UK wants to diverge from EU regulations, and without a withdrawal agreement that regulates how stuff will continue after the brexit deal, it can do so immediately and actually does so immediately as any mention of EASA in the relevant copied over laws will vanish, there is no assurance that the CAA as the NAA overseeing that license still complies with EASA rules past the 29th of march. The EU and its agencies are very much rule based organizations, which is something many people constantly underestimate in its importance.
Denti'
Thanks for your clear reply, I do agree with it from the legal point of view, but do think about two words I said: right away. Where does right away begin or end? March 31st, 00:01? A week later? 2 weeks later...?
I would say whenever a legal change on licensing regulation happens, or whenever the particular license needs to be revalidated, whatever happens first!

Cheers
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 08:26
  #662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fdgolf View Post
Denti'
Thanks for your clear reply, I do agree with it from the legal point of view, but do think about two words I said: right away. Where does right away begin or end? March 31st, 00:01? A week later? 2 weeks later...?
I would say whenever a legal change on licensing regulation happens, or whenever the particular license needs to be revalidated, whatever happens first!

Cheers
The problem with that is, that the EASA would have to react on legal procedures within a third country in hindsight. They do so if needed, however, if one can clearly see a defined date they have to use that date. There is actually no wiggle room for them, except if the commission proposes some changed laws and the EU parliament (and EU council if needed) approve it. Which happened to a few things pertaining aviation, but not for flight crew licenses as there is no need and it is not in the interest of the EU. Remember, the UK wants to leave, and EU agencies have to protect the interests of the remaining EU citizens and their businesses, not those in the UK after leaving.

So yes, the logical and only legal date is 29th of March, midnight CEST. As i said, the EU is a deeply rule based society, it has to follow its own rules.

It looks likely that there will be an extension, although that does depend on unanimity between all EU countries, which of course would enforce a different exit date, which then will be the new cutoff point in case of no deal, which is the legally binding default, even though the HoC voted against it, which is of course not binding in any way, there are only two legal ways out of a no deal scenario: withdraw the article 50 application, or sign a deal (aka withdrawal agreement).
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 18:25
  #663 (permalink)  
 
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The CAA site still has the 29th as the leaving date this week, didn't the EU provide the U.K with two extension dates last week? Will the CAA provide a revised update / communication or is the 29th still in law?
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 18:29
  #664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by turbine100 View Post
The CAA site still has the 29th as the leaving date this week, didn't the EU provide the U.K with two extension dates last week?
Yes, but UK parliament still has to change the 'exit law' which says that the UK is leaving on the 29th of March 23.00...
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 15:14
  #665 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what is actually happening here. I read somewhere that there is an extension. I am still waiting for my Irish license to come through, been 3 months now. I know they are churning them out pretty fast at the moment just the UKCAA taking so long. Can we still fly easa planes.
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 18:40
  #666 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, you can still fly.

If there is a no deal Brexit, that date, whenever that might be, will be limiting. Currently 23:00 on 12 April is next possibility.
What grips me is the total lack of EASA contingency on licensing. The UK have very clearly stated that they will grant third country validation for non-UK issued EASA licences to fly G Reg. EASA are refusing to do the same and ignoring the fact that Authorities have drowned under a mountain of applications. Well, at least those Authorities with a good reputation for processing routine work using days instead of months as a metric.

To make it worse the Authorities are not really following EASA guidance for mutual recognition of certificates. Primarily medicals being the choke point while the licensing teams wait for medical sign-off. Desk officers in the Authorities working their arse off, operators stressed and policy makers hiding behind the regulations and blaming the Authorities for not resourcing properly.

Rant over.
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 21:14
  #667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arthur1815 View Post
What grips me is the total lack of EASA contingency on licensing. The UK have very clearly stated that they will grant third country validation for non-UK issued EASA licences to fly G Reg. EASA are refusing to do the same and ignoring the fact that Authorities have drowned under a mountain of applications.
I quite understand the sentiment. But again, the EU, and its agencies, is a deeply rule based system. And in case of a hard brexit the UK is a third country, nothing more, nothing less. Therefore the exact same rules apply to the relationship between the EU and the UK as for example between the EU and Sudan. The EU contingency plans for a hard brexit actually do approve the acceptance of some certificates and licenses, but not aircrew licenses as there is no need for the EU to do so. The EU protects its own interests, and only its own, which does exclude the UK in that case. Responsible airlines have planned for the original brexit day, working closely with the relevant authorities to ensure that the operation can continue, even if a hard brexit would happen, and yes, that does include expedited license transfers. Individual ones might have been put on the backburner for the big businesses, but that is nothing unusual, money talks after all and the licensing authorities in Ireland and Austria for example are companies that have to turn a profit.

That said, EASA does not have the power to approve any third country validation against its own rules (even if it wanted to), that would have to come down from the higher ups, prepared by the commission and voted into law by the european parliament.
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 08:42
  #668 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what the current turnaround time is for a UK to EASA conversion?
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Old 6th Apr 2019, 15:31
  #669 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JliderPilot View Post
Anyone know what the current turnaround time is for a UK to EASA conversion?
Fellows where I work have recently transferred from UK CAA to Spain's AESA in as little as 22 days...

Cheers
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 18:01
  #670 (permalink)  
 
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I had a chat with AustoControl and the German LBA last week regarding my license transfer. Especially AustroControl was very customer friendly and I have been told; as long as you start the license transfer before Brexit, you will be all-right. Even if they do not receive the required paperwork from the UK CAA on time, you will keep your EASA privileges. The license will be issued as soon as they receive the documents from the UK CAA. This has been confirmed be the LBA as well.

Last edited by Peter_CDG; 7th Apr 2019 at 18:06. Reason: spelling
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Old 8th Apr 2019, 15:15
  #671 (permalink)  
 
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de facto

When did the CAA charge you the fees for Doc 155 and medical release?

Thanks

Last edited by fdgolf; 8th Apr 2019 at 15:30.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 06:33
  #672 (permalink)  
 
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So I'm in a situation where I could be denied a job by an European carrier/AOC flying outbound from UK airports to outside the EU because EASA have provided no assurances to them that UK licenses will still be valid on their AOC. Unfortunately, I need a UK license by the terms of my current employment whilst serving my employment notice. So cannot start the process.

Yes, the foreign carrier on the day of Brexit is somehow sure that they will be allowed by the UK to continue flying but they cannot employ a Brit with a Brit license just in case. The irony? The carrier was brought in to replace the work my old airline was doing prior to my redundancy.

On another note, now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?

Thanks
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 21:09
  #673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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I am still not sure if Brexit will happen at all but I am wondering which NAAs you guys consider competent and a good choice to go to in case a hard and nasty (for pilots) Brexit seems more and more likely. Things that are of interest to me are
- is the NAA likely to quickly introduce new ratings such as recently EIR/CBIR and in the future BIR
- does the NAA either have a large and accessible pool of examiners or easy rules on accepting examiners from other EASA NAAs
- is the price structure at least somewhat sensible (ie, AustroControl is a lot more expensive than the LBA)
- is the NAA know for stupid deviations from part fcl (the LBA's ZUP / admissibility check comes to mind)
- other things I am not aware of as I am just a new PPL holder who just barely needs his first revalidation)
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 13:42
  #674 (permalink)  
 
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It seems you were right
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 09:34
  #675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CW247 View Post
So I'm in a situation where I could be denied a job by an European carrier/AOC flying outbound from UK airports to outside the EU because EASA have provided no assurances to them that UK licenses will still be valid on their AOC. Unfortunately, I need a UK license by the terms of my current employment whilst serving my employment notice. So cannot start the process.

Yes, the foreign carrier on the day of Brexit is somehow sure that they will be allowed by the UK to continue flying but they cannot employ a Brit with a Brit license just in case. The irony? The carrier was brought in to replace the work my old airline was doing prior to my redundancy.

On another note, now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?

Thanks
Are you already serving your notice?
If so, you can start the process of transfer provided you do not have any further simulator checks.
Your transfer of licence can be started and will not be complete until you surrender your old license, so as long as paperwork is in order and ready when you want/need to, you should be fine.
If not serving your notice yet, plan accordingly.
Skyjob is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 03:04
  #676 (permalink)  
 
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So this thread has gone quiet for the last three months.

It appears that BoJo is intent on leaving the EU without a deal. Treasury is spending big accordingly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49183324 GBP2.1 billion pounds in extra funding.

The effect on aviation?
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 09:46
  #677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Raski View Post


None.
If brexit will happen UK CAA will remain under the EASA umbrella, external member.
I would not lose my sleep on that.
The last 3 years were pretty funny in seeing that the UK goverment is not able to handle brexit.
Wouldn’t the CAA have to apply for associate membership?
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Old 1st Aug 2019, 10:08
  #678 (permalink)  
 
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And they'd have to accept falling under the auspicies of the European Courts. That's anathema to BoJo and his team.

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Old 1st Aug 2019, 10:11
  #679 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Speed of Sound View Post


Wouldn’t the CAA have to apply for associate membership?
And would EASA "associate" membership be subject to the UK accepting the 4 freedoms of the EU (something Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein seem to have done)?
portos8 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 11:26
  #680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Raski View Post


i think bojo will have to change his mind on many issues...and he will.
So he will have to accept the 4 fundamental freedoms of the EU ( free movement of goods, services, capital and persons within the EU, the famous “four freedoms” set out in the Treaty of Rome ) plus the ECJ jurisdiction for the UK to stay in EASA.

Somehow I can not see this happen.
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