EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid

[ThorMos]

Originally Posted by turbine100

The CAA site still has the 29th as the leaving date this week, didn't the EU provide the U.K with two extension dates last week?

Yes, but UK parliament still has to change the 'exit law' which says that the UK is leaving on the 29th of March 23.00...

[James7]

Anyone know what is actually happening here. I read somewhere that there is an extension. I am still waiting for my Irish license to come through, been 3 months now. I know they are churning them out pretty fast at the moment just the UKCAA taking so long. Can we still fly easa planes.

[Arthur1815]

Yes, you can still fly.

If there is a no deal Brexit, that date, whenever that might be, will be limiting. Currently 23:00 on 12 April is next possibility.
What grips me is the total lack of EASA contingency on licensing. The UK have very clearly stated that they will grant third country validation for non-UK issued EASA licences to fly G Reg. EASA are refusing to do the same and ignoring the fact that Authorities have drowned under a mountain of applications. Well, at least those Authorities with a good reputation for processing routine work using days instead of months as a metric.

To make it worse the Authorities are not really following EASA guidance for mutual recognition of certificates. Primarily medicals being the choke point while the licensing teams wait for medical sign-off. Desk officers in the Authorities working their arse off, operators stressed and policy makers hiding behind the regulations and blaming the Authorities for not resourcing properly.

Rant over.

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Arthur1815

What grips me is the total lack of EASA contingency on licensing. The UK have very clearly stated that they will grant third country validation for non-UK issued EASA licences to fly G Reg. EASA are refusing to do the same and ignoring the fact that Authorities have drowned under a mountain of applications.

I quite understand the sentiment. But again, the EU, and its agencies, is a deeply rule based system. And in case of a hard brexit the UK is a third country, nothing more, nothing less. Therefore the exact same rules apply to the relationship between the EU and the UK as for example between the EU and Sudan. The EU contingency plans for a hard brexit actually do approve the acceptance of some certificates and licenses, but not aircrew licenses as there is no need for the EU to do so. The EU protects its own interests, and only its own, which does exclude the UK in that case. Responsible airlines have planned for the original brexit day, working closely with the relevant authorities to ensure that the operation can continue, even if a hard brexit would happen, and yes, that does include expedited license transfers. Individual ones might have been put on the backburner for the big businesses, but that is nothing unusual, money talks after all and the licensing authorities in Ireland and Austria for example are companies that have to turn a profit.

That said, EASA does not have the power to approve any third country validation against its own rules (even if it wanted to), that would have to come down from the higher ups, prepared by the commission and voted into law by the european parliament.

[JliderPilot]

Anyone know what the current turnaround time is for a UK to EASA conversion?

[fdgolf]

Originally Posted by JliderPilot

Anyone know what the current turnaround time is for a UK to EASA conversion?

Fellows where I work have recently transferred from UK CAA to Spain's AESA in as little as 22 days...

Cheers

[Peter_CDG]

I had a chat with AustoControl and the German LBA last week regarding my license transfer. Especially AustroControl was very customer friendly and I have been told; as long as you start the license transfer before Brexit, you will be all-right. Even if they do not receive the required paperwork from the UK CAA on time, you will keep your EASA privileges. The license will be issued as soon as they receive the documents from the UK CAA. This has been confirmed be the LBA as well.

[fdgolf]

de facto

When did the CAA charge you the fees for Doc 155 and medical release?

Thanks

[CW247]

So I'm in a situation where I could be denied a job by an European carrier/AOC flying outbound from UK airports to outside the EU because EASA have provided no assurances to them that UK licenses will still be valid on their AOC. Unfortunately, I need a UK license by the terms of my current employment whilst serving my employment notice. So cannot start the process.

Yes, the foreign carrier on the day of Brexit is somehow sure that they will be allowed by the UK to continue flying but they cannot employ a Brit with a Brit license just in case. The irony? The carrier was brought in to replace the work my old airline was doing prior to my redundancy.

On another note, now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?

Thanks

[Artus KG]

I am still not sure if Brexit will happen at all but I am wondering which NAAs you guys consider competent and a good choice to go to in case a hard and nasty (for pilots) Brexit seems more and more likely. Things that are of interest to me are
- is the NAA likely to quickly introduce new ratings such as recently EIR/CBIR and in the future BIR
- does the NAA either have a large and accessible pool of examiners or easy rules on accepting examiners from other EASA NAAs
- is the price structure at least somewhat sensible (ie, AustroControl is a lot more expensive than the LBA)
- is the NAA know for stupid deviations from part fcl (the LBA's ZUP / admissibility check comes to mind)
- other things I am not aware of as I am just a new PPL holder who just barely needs his first revalidation)

[babymike737]

It seems you were right

[Skyjob]

Originally Posted by CW247

So I'm in a situation where I could be denied a job by an European carrier/AOC flying outbound from UK airports to outside the EU because EASA have provided no assurances to them that UK licenses will still be valid on their AOC. Unfortunately, I need a UK license by the terms of my current employment whilst serving my employment notice. So cannot start the process.

Yes, the foreign carrier on the day of Brexit is somehow sure that they will be allowed by the UK to continue flying but they cannot employ a Brit with a Brit license just in case. The irony? The carrier was brought in to replace the work my old airline was doing prior to my redundancy.

On another note, now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?

Thanks

Are you already serving your notice?
If so, you can start the process of transfer provided you do not have any further simulator checks.
Your transfer of licence can be started and will not be complete until you surrender your old license, so as long as paperwork is in order and ready when you want/need to, you should be fine.
If not serving your notice yet, plan accordingly.

[Icarus2001]

So this thread has gone quiet for the last three months.

It appears that BoJo is intent on leaving the EU without a deal. Treasury is spending big accordingly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49183324 GBP2.1 billion pounds in extra funding.

The effect on aviation?

[Speed of Sound]

Originally Posted by Raski

None.
If brexit will happen UK CAA will remain under the EASA umbrella, external member.
I would not lose my sleep on that.
The last 3 years were pretty funny in seeing that the UK goverment is not able to handle brexit.

Wouldn’t the CAA have to apply for associate membership?

[robin]

And they'd have to accept falling under the auspicies of the European Courts. That's anathema to BoJo and his team.

[portos8]

Originally Posted by Speed of Sound

Wouldn’t the CAA have to apply for associate membership?

And would EASA "associate" membership be subject to the UK accepting the 4 freedoms of the EU (something Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein seem to have done)?

[portos8]

Originally Posted by Raski

i think bojo will have to change his mind on many issues...and he will.

So he will have to accept the 4 fundamental freedoms of the EU ( free movement of goods, services, capital and persons within the EU, the famous “four freedoms” set out in the Treaty of Rome ) plus the ECJ jurisdiction for the UK to stay in EASA.

Somehow I can not see this happen.

[Denti]

Why would the EU offer an EASA membership for a third country that just destroyed a peace treaty they have signed, does not fulfill its past obligations and seriously disrupts EU commerce? Answer: It wouldn't. Easy as that. The EU has already done its homework with its unilateral no deal legislation that it can withdraw without prior notice at any time, just protecting its own interests. And Airlines, workers, shareholders in a third country are not an interest to the EU.

[Speed of Sound]

Originally Posted by portos8

So he will have to accept the 4 fundamental freedoms of the EU ( free movement of goods, services, capital and persons within the EU, the famous “four freedoms” set out in the Treaty of Rome ) plus the ECJ jurisdiction for the UK to stay in EASA.

Somehow I can not see this happen.

The UK has no choice.

Either it becomes an associate member of another regulatory authority elsewhere in the world, which will take months just to sort the paperwork or the CAA becomes a full, internationally recognised, regulatory authority which will take the best part of a decade.

The only way that the UK can continue to fly on 1 November is to approach the EU for associate membership of EASA, BEFORE that date and face off the idiots at home who are refusing to have any links with the EU or ECJ.

[777JRM]

Remember that EASA is not the EU.

Further, the CAA was independent once before; if they pull their finger out, they can be so again!

The UK does have a choice, and should not be weak when faced with such scaremongering!

By your patronising reckoning, I must be an ‘idiot’.

How other non-EU airlines somehow work it out, is beyond my feeble, idiotic brain cells, but all is not lost.