Heavy casualties reported in Algerian IL78 crash
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https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5305.../data=!3m1!1e3
Clearly identifiable from videos/photos posted on news sites and social media, in fields between A1 highway and the end of RWY 22. The airport perimeter guard towers appear clearly in some photos.
Clearly identifiable from videos/photos posted on news sites and social media, in fields between A1 highway and the end of RWY 22. The airport perimeter guard towers appear clearly in some photos.
and one close to the apron & another one taxiing...at the moment of the satellite pass-pic
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News agencies tell about "military and relatives".
And, yes, Algeria is an oil&gas producer but also a corruption permissive country. All Africa is. It's a common pic to see military ACs debarking civilians "related" to military men & women (and politicians).
There's one thing that makes me think: it's not too common these days to see a death toll that high (all deceased) in a close to take-off accident (the plane's been aloft a little while to come to crash inside the airport boundaries). If that's real, safety conditions on board had to be...nil.
Poor people.
Last edited by guadaMB; 11th Apr 2018 at 15:51. Reason: Typo (permissive for permisive)
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It's important to note that this is the 6th such accident of this type in Algeria since 2003.
It's understandably gripped the nation and will do for sometime, however if there's one thing I'm noticing, it's the anger on social media within Algeria. You get a sense of 'enough is enough' for them and these types of incidents. However knowing the country, it's unlikely anything will change.
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Algeria's Il-76 fleet is:
Il-76 MD ----> 3 and Il-76 TD ----> 8
Really had they SIX SERIOUS accidents within this type?
In a fleet of 11 units?
That's a very bad stats figure...
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My source again is ennahar. They made a table of all crashes, the most recent being 102 deaths in a large transporter in 2014 (similar to today but can't remember exact aircraft). The thread on that crash is here somewhere.
I've tried uploading it here but it wants a URL, I saw it on their Facebook page my via the app so can't upload it for now cos I'm on the mobile. It's in Arabic (as are all their publications) though so perhaps not of much use to most here.
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When i said "type" I didn't mean aircraft type, I meant a crash involving the Algerian Air Force conducting one operation or another, usually transporting soldiers and their families too for some strange reason.
My source again is ennahar. They made a table of all crashes, the most recent being 102 deaths in a large transporter in 2014 (similar to today but can't remember exact aircraft). The thread on that crash is here somewhere.
I've tried uploading it here but it wants a URL, I saw it on their Facebook page my via the app so can't upload it for now cos I'm on the mobile. It's in Arabic (as are all their publications) though so perhaps not of much use to most here.
My source again is ennahar. They made a table of all crashes, the most recent being 102 deaths in a large transporter in 2014 (similar to today but can't remember exact aircraft). The thread on that crash is here somewhere.
I've tried uploading it here but it wants a URL, I saw it on their Facebook page my via the app so can't upload it for now cos I'm on the mobile. It's in Arabic (as are all their publications) though so perhaps not of much use to most here.
The accident you mention in your 2nd paragraph was an Hercules C-130 (more than 100 deceased, as I recall).
Algeria's Air Force is a big one (more than 350 ACs -all types- and more than 250 choppers) and it had to be deeply studied if those six accidents are (or not) within certain margins of acceptance. The last sentence doesen't refer to death toll but the relation between nº of ACs, flights (operations) and accidents.
There's one thing that makes me think: it's not too common these days to see a death toll that high (all deceased) in a close to take-off accident (the plane's been aloft a little while to come to crash inside the airport boundaries). If that's real, safety conditions on board had to be...nil.
Poor people.
Poor people.
Conventional seats, whether forward or rear-facing, provide significant deceleration protection, the forward-facing ones from the seat unit directly ahead, in addition to the harnesses. Side-facing cannot provide the first, and if there are no harnesses not the second either.
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An investigation of that type is beyond my pay grade, but what people are asking is why it's them so often. And from an aviation perspective it may be number of accidents, but from a public opinion perspective, number of deaths are what trigger angry responses. 359 deaths in 4 yrs has provoked a pretty angry response so far.
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Do those side-facing double-deck seats in the photo above have seat belts ? Are they not just intended for paratroops ?
Conventional seats, whether forward or rear-facing, provide significant deceleration protection, the forward-facing ones from the seat unit directly ahead, in addition to the harnesses. Side-facing cannot provide the first, and if there are no harnesses not the second either.
Conventional seats, whether forward or rear-facing, provide significant deceleration protection, the forward-facing ones from the seat unit directly ahead, in addition to the harnesses. Side-facing cannot provide the first, and if there are no harnesses not the second either.
In an agency report I read about "military men, their families and equipment" and this phrase may mean a lot of different possibilities. With no specific references we cannot make conjectures about what could happen.
And being Algeria, forget to have CERTAIN data about what happened...
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An investigation of that type is beyond my pay grade, but what people are asking is why it's them so often. And from an aviation perspective it may be number of accidents, but from a public opinion perspective, number of deaths are what trigger angry responses. 359 deaths in 4 yrs has provoked a pretty angry response so far.
Fatalities are HUMAN and stats are FIGURES.
An Air Force (the Algerian) of about 600 ACs is just a "number" but if we confront that number with the total operational activity (unknown for myself) we could have a third figure of "issues average" that cannot be related to the death toll. In a 600+ fleet may have a disastrous accident figures with very little deceased people (or the contrary).
The confrontation of flights vs fatalities could be made studying commercial airlines, not military air forces.
Last edited by guadaMB; 11th Apr 2018 at 17:21. Reason: Adding last sentence.
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Google Translate does a reasonable job with Arabic websites, so not as useless as one might first think.
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Arabic to English. Much better than other translations (German to Spanish, Romanian to English, i.e.)
The problem, talking about this accident, is THE AVAILABLE INFO IN ALGERIAN NEWSPAPERS, web sites and on-line TV servers.
If I continue, the mods will do their job, but I think it's all clear in my words.
It is difficult to see how this number on board could have been carried without such jury-rig accommodation. The IL-76 is not a large aircraft; it's not a widebody. The cabin is smaller than a 757. It is most commonly used for cargo, or with a small passenger compartment separated from this. It does not have cabin windows.
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It is difficult to see how this number on board could have been carried without such jury-rig accommodation. The IL-76 is not a large aircraft; it's not a widebody. The cabin is smaller than a 757. It is most commonly used for cargo, or with a small passenger compartment separated from this. It does not have cabin windows.
Now going into the 250+ people on board: I sincerely don't understand how could all those bodies come into that AC, even if the "double littered deck" was installed.
Those persons were cargoed like cattle. Cannot imagine how could it be programmed...
[QUOTE][however if there's one thing I'm noticing, it's the anger on social media/QUOTE]
"social media" seems to thrive on outrage and anger, often in advance of factual findings.
I worry for future generations.
- sorry for the drift.
"social media" seems to thrive on outrage and anger, often in advance of factual findings.
I worry for future generations.
- sorry for the drift.
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IL76 has basically 3 configs for the troops - paradropping mission config carrying ca 120, single deck transport very similar to paradropping ca 150 and double decker transport ca 230-250. All with the seat belts and even an emergency oxygen supply. Why would anyone use it to transport civilians is a question which has nothing to do with aircraft design.
On my memory the only IL76 which was fitted with full cabin of front facing "normal" passenger seats was Iraqi Airways one, don't know how many seats it was. There are also some special configurations to carry 3/4 star generals featuring separately pressurised modules loaded onto main deck but it is not common to see in actual operations with any AF.
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Three witnesses said they saw flames coming from one of the plane's engines as it took off around 8 a.m. The Russian-made Ilyushin-76 transport plane appeared to swerve to the right to avoid a populated area before it crashed in an empty agricultural field, several people said.
Witness reports of a wing catching fire shortly after take off, catastrophic engine failure perhaps ? However witness reports of fire prior to an accident which later prove to be wrong aren’t uncommon as the post impact fire is traumatic and affects the memory.
