Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Heavy casualties reported in Algerian IL78 crash

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Heavy casualties reported in Algerian IL78 crash

Old 11th Apr 2018, 08:39
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Heavy casualties reported in Algerian IL78 crash

According to initial report (from the Sun mind you ) as many as 200.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/602311...h-toll-latest/


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...081014559.html


Just googling it seems the 78 is mainly a tanker, and that it is likely a 76 (which is what Algerian military operate ) but, of no consequence in this tragedy.

Last edited by captplaystation; 11th Apr 2018 at 08:49.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 09:04
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by captplaystation
According to initial report (from the Sun mind you ) as many as 200.

Just googling it seems the 78 is mainly a tanker, and that it is likely a 76 (which is what Algerian military operate ) but, of no consequence in this tragedy.
The Al Jazeera link correctly identifies it as an Il-76. The narrative and photos of the crash site in open farmland don't really square with the "as many as 200 dead" report in the Sun, though clearly all on board perished.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Video Grab: Scene outside Boufarik airport after Algerian military plane crash
Shows tail of aircraft with left horizontal stabilizer in the vertical position.



Video can be seen on this page
BREAKING Algerian Military plane with about 100 people onboard crashed near Boufarik airbase | AIRLIVE.net
StormyKnight is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 10:53
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Algerian Ennahar tv reporting 300 onboard with 247 confirmed dead so far.

Edit to add just gone up to 257

Last edited by Officer Kite; 11th Apr 2018 at 11:20.
Officer Kite is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 11:22
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: en route
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Il-76 payload = 17,500Kg. 300 pax + bags = 30,000kgs.

Plane crashed just after take-off.

Oops.
rcsa is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 11:41
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rcsa
Il-76 payload = 17,500Kg. 300 pax + bags = 30,000kgs.

Plane crashed just after take-off.

Oops.
I hope it's not the error of using the average person weight for the load calculation instead of the real weight of serviceman & kit.

If so it's not the first time this has happened.
StormyKnight is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 11:48
  #7 (permalink)  

Champagne anyone...?
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: EGDL
Age: 54
Posts: 1,420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
IL76MD, a variant the Algerians have, can lift approx 40T of payload.
StopStart is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 11:51
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rcsa
Il-76 payload = 17,500Kg. 300 pax + bags = 30,000kgs.

Plane crashed just after take-off.

Oops.
Il76 payload depending of a model is 40 to 50 tons. Nevertheless the normal troops capacity is around 150 or so...
CargoOne is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:31
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 58
Posts: 1,903
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
At least 257 on board... That sounds like a fairly significant overload!
atakacs is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:45
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 60
Posts: 909
Received 13 Likes on 2 Posts
Al Watan (the most reliable Algerian news source) also reports 257 casualties, 10 crew the rest military personnel and their families.

Weight wise not an issue (some Il-76 variants can take as much as 60 tons payload) but how on earth did they manage to cram that many into that space (perhaps some fold-down double-decker config, like it was in the C-124 ?)
andrasz is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 12:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by andrasz
Weight wise not an issue (some Il-76 variants can take as much as 60 tons payload) but how on earth did they manage to cram that many into that space
Balance issue?
Karel_x is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:00
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Texas, like a whole other country
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
According to the BBC, the 257 aboard consisted of not only troops but also their families, so conceivably there may be many small children among them. There are also 10 crew believed killed, presumably included in the number being cited. A massive tragedy for the Algerians.
Carbon Bootprint is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Interloper
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts


Hold size 728x135” = 682 sq ft

For 250 passengers each would have 2.73 sq ft or a 1.6x1.6 ft space on the floor.

Tight !
TylerMonkey is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:18
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is a double-decker config for IL76 making it aprox 250 troops capacity but I am not sure how often/widely it used these days...

CargoOne is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:23
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 54
Posts: 922
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Possible Engine failure with MTOW exceeded... nightmare scenario.
flash8 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:26
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flash8
Possible Engine failure with MTOW exceeded... nightmare scenario.
You cant exceed MTOW on IL76 with just 250 pax and fuelled for Algerian domestic flight
CargoOne is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 13:41
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 60
Posts: 909
Received 13 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by CargoOne
There is a double-decker config for IL76
That's the one I was thinking of, thanks. Read about it somewhere but could not find a photo anywhere.

Originally Posted by CargoOne
You cant exceed MTOW on IL76 with just 250 pax and fuelled for Algerian domestic flight
Completely agree, the load while unusual is well within aircraft capabilities, and may be easily accommodated with the kit shown above. Any number of things (or more likely their combination) could have gone wrong here (bird strike, incorrect flaps/slats, thrust, W/B just to name a few), at this stage there is nothing to go on. El Watan reports that the accident happened right on the airport perimeter (and is also confirmed by the released photos & videos, there are built up areas further along the extended centreline in both directions) so whatever happened occurred just around liftoff.

Last edited by andrasz; 11th Apr 2018 at 13:54.
andrasz is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 14:13
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Montréal
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rcsa
Il-76 payload = 17,500Kg. 300 pax + bags = 30,000kgs.

Plane crashed just after take-off.

Oops.
The Algerian Air Force operates both Il-76 and Il-78. This could be either. There are different models with different weights, but on average, their empty weight is about 92 tonnes and their Zero Fuel Weights are 139.5. So on average, they can haul a payload of about 47 tonnes, although I find that on the internet, most indicate a payload of 42 tonnes.
Gilles Hudicourt is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 14:37
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 60
Posts: 909
Received 13 Likes on 2 Posts
Accident location

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5305.../data=!3m1!1e3

Clearly identifiable from videos/photos posted on news sites and social media, in fields between A1 highway and the end of RWY 22. The airport perimeter guard towers appear clearly in some photos.
andrasz is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2018, 15:01
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gran Canaria
Age: 59
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
(bird strike, incorrect flaps/slats, thrust, W/B just to name a few)
Fairly intact tail section resting close to engines and fuel tanks, together with the proximity to the end of runway suggest a stall to me.

Condolences to all involved.
Rob Bamber is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.