Passengers in Cargo Hold?
I've thought about this for some time. My idea would be to put around a dozen first class suites, galleys & some toilets in the forward galley - if you look at seat maps they take up a lot of space. You will probably still need to a serving point for inflight snacks, economy class toilets & a disabled loo on the main deck. Would it be safe for dozen or so pax to remain on the lower deck through the flight or would safety dictate they they would have to return to the main deck for t/o & landing?
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PSA sat pax in the lower deck lounge of their Tristars in 1973 - it was cleared for pax there and had a under belly fairing fitted aft of the nose wheel in case of NG collapse etc
had a handy forward lower deck air stair too (court Line had a rear air stair fitted in aft hold that swung out for door 3R egress)
PSA only took delivery of only 2 of 5 built with lower deck lounges and LTU took the others i think - don't think LTU sat pax down there but they did use the lower deck lounge for a while?
had a handy forward lower deck air stair too (court Line had a rear air stair fitted in aft hold that swung out for door 3R egress)
PSA only took delivery of only 2 of 5 built with lower deck lounges and LTU took the others i think - don't think LTU sat pax down there but they did use the lower deck lounge for a while?
p.s. in my very old and fading memory I recall it was in the front hold but will defer to your superior knowledge (memory).
p.s. in my very old and fading memory I recall it was in the front hold but will defer to your superior knowledge (memory).
...watch the snake unfold...watch the happy stewies...watch how much frikken leg room there was...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oTI-z1RAEU
...watch the snake unfold...watch the happy stewies...watch how much frikken leg room there was...
...watch the snake unfold...watch the happy stewies...watch how much frikken leg room there was...
However my interest is now fully piqued as I wonder if indeed that was actually a Court Line plane throughout the video, the cabin crew uniforms were not familiar (although I am aware that often other crews were utilised in early days of new types). Indeed I had the privilege of flying on the very first L1011 to visit Europe in Eastern Airlines colours, I think, on its sales trip with Dan Houghton himself on board and all the cabin crew were in various airline uniforms.Great inflight party and chat with flight finishing with an autoland back at Luton.
So its got me wondering if there were different options on airstair types on offer. I recall that Court Line didn't keep theirs very long (stairs I mean) perhaps due to weight or complexity and ensuing problems.) They also bought a Beverley and parked it at Luton, with the intent of moving an RB211 engine around if needed but don't think it ever flew.
and these days with VR headsets it could be quite pleasant.
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I have a recollection from the distant past of reading about an in-flight report from (I think) a DC10 about a jammed elevator. The consternation was somewhat lessened when it transpired that the report concerned the lift between hold and main deck galleys.
I believe that there was also a case where a member of cabin crew as trapped in such an elevator.
I believe that there was also a case where a member of cabin crew as trapped in such an elevator.
The probable cause was determined to be a damaged interlock switch which should have prevented the elevator from moving with the door open.
The two PSA L-1011 with the lower deck seating in what would be the fwd bag hold did indeed have an armored skin up front in the event of a belly landing. When Worldways of Canada bought them they were brought to Eastern Air Lines Contract Maintenance where we removed the lower deck seating. In order to lighten things we also took close to 2000-lbs of belly armor off. That was quite a penalty for seating downstairs.
The L-1011 galley "lifts" were initially very troublesome proving again the old axiom, "Don't buy the A Model of anything!" In the event of both lifts being jammed down, you could go out through their ceiling to the main deck. If both were jammed up however the lower galley occupants were trapped. Pressure sensors on their top prevented them from coming up if anything was on top of them. Never saw the DC-10 system so can't comment.
The L-1011 galley "lifts" were initially very troublesome proving again the old axiom, "Don't buy the A Model of anything!" In the event of both lifts being jammed down, you could go out through their ceiling to the main deck. If both were jammed up however the lower galley occupants were trapped. Pressure sensors on their top prevented them from coming up if anything was on top of them. Never saw the DC-10 system so can't comment.
Returning to the topic (jolly interesting diversion though!) the most comfortable bed I have had crossing the Atlantic was a hammock in the back of a C130 (and that includes being more comfortable than BA First) so if there is a quick and easy egress route I would be more than happy to travel in the dark.
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I was going to say the Stratocruiser had a great lounge below the main deck but cargo and fuel have become too important today. As for passengers in a hole, there is nothing to prevent windows in that structure. Like the Hindenberg with passengers able to view the ground below.
Well actually windows in the lower hold are a problem. Because the aircraft skin curves away from the seats in the lower hold, the windows on the PSA aircraft were in tunnels well away from the seated passenger and really didn't give you much view.
The VC-25 747s (i.e. the current Air Force One aircraft) have stairs down to the cargo deck for ready access in flight (it's been nearly 30 years, but IIRC there were two - one in the front and one aft of the center wing box). There is also a fancy retracting stairway that permits SLF to climb up to the lower deck then take the stairway to the main and upper decks.
Among other things there was chilled storage on the lower deck for the galley (the VC-25 aircraft have a full kitchen - not the 'heat and eat' capabilities of most airliner galleys), as well as access to the EE bay.
However I don't believe the lower deck had any seating or was approved to be occupied during takeoff/landing.
Among other things there was chilled storage on the lower deck for the galley (the VC-25 aircraft have a full kitchen - not the 'heat and eat' capabilities of most airliner galleys), as well as access to the EE bay.
However I don't believe the lower deck had any seating or was approved to be occupied during takeoff/landing.
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Three decades ago the A310 had cockpit access to the avionics compartment below. You could even open the hatch below that and climb down to the ramp on a small ladder. Sometimes mechanics would exit the aircraft that way at the gate before pushback.
Some overwater jumpseat riders on a full plane would take a walkaround O2 bottle and go down for a nap. If you needed some cushions, you could borrow some soft luggage from the forward hold which was accessible through a door.
One colleague inbound to FRA dozed off in the lower compartment. The relief pilot went down and woke him at top of descent but he fell asleep again. He woke up once more when the forward cargo door was opened on arrival and climbed down the loader to the ramp. A German airport security officer saw him exit and the fallout was predictable.
There have been many cases of baggage handlers falling asleep in the hold and taking an unscheduled trip to another city or even another country.
For example:
Some overwater jumpseat riders on a full plane would take a walkaround O2 bottle and go down for a nap. If you needed some cushions, you could borrow some soft luggage from the forward hold which was accessible through a door.
One colleague inbound to FRA dozed off in the lower compartment. The relief pilot went down and woke him at top of descent but he fell asleep again. He woke up once more when the forward cargo door was opened on arrival and climbed down the loader to the ramp. A German airport security officer saw him exit and the fallout was predictable.
There have been many cases of baggage handlers falling asleep in the hold and taking an unscheduled trip to another city or even another country.
For example:
Whilst the Tristar gets several mentions here, it’s interesting to point out that in the UK nobody failed the 1179 type written exam on the Tristar as RR had financial problems and needed to sell engines. Nobody passed the 1179 exam until the 3rd attempt on the 727 whilst Dan Air and Boing tried top get it onto the British register as it was in competition with the Trident. Lears had to be put onto the Irish register as the ARB said no to curved windscreens as it was in competition with the 125. Good old British politics and aviation.
I remember it well, but I recall that the pull down bunks were in the main cabin, First Class, not the lower lounge ?
