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EASA/Brexit

Old 28th Mar 2018, 12:11
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EASA/Brexit

Will Brexit have any implications for the UK's participation in EASA?
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 12:53
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Teresa May Speech 2 March 2018

In her Brexit speech on 2 March Teresa May said:

“We will also want to explore with the EU, the terms on which the UK could remain part of EU agencies such as those that are critical for the chemicals, medicines and aerospace industries: the European Medicines Agency, the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), and the European Aviation Safety Agency.
We would, of course, accept that this would mean abiding by the rules of those agencies and making an appropriate financial contribution.”

RHRP
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 13:29
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.. but not having a vote.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 14:26
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As the rulemaking in the EU is done largely by organisations like EASA and the final authority for those is the european court, there will be something of a conflict there as those that want to work with EASA have to fall under that jurisdiction.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:26
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There’ll be lots of posturing from all sides but the end of the day there will be a deal struck. The cost of there not being one done is simply too high for all parties.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:30
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From EASA web site :
n addition to the member states of the European union, the countries part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), i.e. Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland and Iceland, have been granted participation under Article 66 of the Basic Regulation and are members of the Management Board without voting rights.[6] There are also numerous working relationships with other authorities.[7]
Looks like if UK leaves EFTA , they will be treated like the others ,e.g Turkey, you can follow the rules, but not part of the discussions .
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:35
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I just hope that the UK will leave the flawed FTL that were introduced by EASA. They were introduced to appease european cabin crew unions with no regard to the science of fatigue that had been closely studied by the UK for forty years.
The other thing I would like kicked into touch is Eu261.This flawed rule gives an over generous payment regardless of the price paid for a ticket.It woulddn’t take a computer geek to work out which flights are regularly cancelled and then buy tickets cheaply and claim a disproportionate amount as a claim.
As a professional pilot my opinion of EASA and what they have done to protect my safety and my career, is very poor. They certainly do not appear to help the users of the airspace only the employers.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:37
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Originally Posted by triple7driver
I wonder if UK issued EASA licenses will still be valid for work on the Continent?
Air France are recruiting 200 pilots but it is a pre-requisite that you have to be a french national to apply and if you don’t have a relative already working there you will not be offered a job- as told to me by my French co-pilot.
There really is no hope when this level of nepotism and nationalism is standard at a flag carrier.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:51
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you have to be a french national to apply and if you don’t have a relative already working there you will not be offered a job
The first part is against EU rules and is not correct , the second sounds like corruption , and is punishable by law so I doubt seriously the statement of your " French F/0"
What is true is that you have to speak fluently French as in France , the basic regulations are in French and the spoken language inside AF is French. ( the same applies in some other EU countries , like Spain for instance)
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 18:52
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
As a professional pilot my opinion of EASA and what they have done to protect my safety and my career, is very poor. They certainly do not appear to help the users of the airspace only the employers.
My experience of the UK CAA from times gone by has one been of a bureaucratic nightmare established by unelected Civil Servants. I don't see EASA as being worse. In fact all the arguments put forward by Brexiters regarding their opinions of Brussels just seem to sum up the old CAA to me.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 19:01
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Tubby: I agree with you on the nepotism thing. I have a mexican friend who justifies it by saying that the logical choice to an Airline is to select the children of it's Pilots as they are a known quantity i.e. less of a risk. Obviously it's unacceptable though in a reasonable society.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 19:10
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
The first part is against EU rules and is not correct , the second sounds like corruption , and is punishable by law so I doubt seriously the statement of your " French F/0"
What is true is that you have to speak fluently French as in France , the basic regulations are in French and the spoken language inside AF is French. ( the same applies in some other EU countries , like Spain for instance)
The proof is that another FO whose father is an AF board member has been recruited with a minimal selection. My FO ,a very pleasant young lady of mixed ancestry but with a French passport is still waiting for an interview. The first FO has handed in his notice and will be leaving for Paris in the next few months.
They both had a similar level of experience.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 19:28
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Originally Posted by RHRP
In her Brexit speech on 2 March Teresa May said:

“We will also want to explore with the EU, the terms on which the UK could remain part of EU agencies such as those that are critical for the chemicals, medicines and aerospace industries: the European Medicines Agency, the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), and the European Aviation Safety Agency.
We would, of course, accept that this would mean abiding by the rules of those agencies and making an appropriate financial contribution.”
Sadly, this is free rainbow coloured flying unicorn cake territory, as she has an overriding red line, which is no subservience to the ECJ. So we're out of EASA. As she said very firmly some time earlier, "#brexit means #brexit".
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 20:01
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
Sadly, this is free rainbow coloured flying unicorn cake territory, as she has an overriding red line, which is no subservience to the ECJ. So we're out of EASA. As she said very firmly some time earlier, "#brexit means #brexit".
For this reason alone, the original Brexit is impossible. It's not possible to ground our Airline industry because we won't acknowledge the authority of the ECJ. If 43% of the industry is grounded then everything is grounded.

The only way the original Brexit can work would be if the EU capitulates and we do get our cake and eat it. Let's hope for that eh.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 20:01
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
The proof is that another FO whose father is an AF board member has been recruited with a minimal selection. My FO ,a very pleasant young lady of mixed ancestry but with a French passport is still waiting for an interview. The first FO has handed in his notice and will be leaving for Paris in the next few months.
They both had a similar level of experience.
Not correct!
I fly, on a daily basis, with pilots from the Air France waiting list, they are called for courses in strict order of the list, they all tell the same story about the interview, and have different nationalities. You have to be fluent in French, but you won’t pass the BA recruitment if you are not fluent in English either.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 20:27
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
Air France are recruiting 200 pilots but it is a pre-requisite that you have to be a french national to apply and if you don’t have a relative already working there you will not be offered a job- as told to me by my French co-pilot.
There really is no hope when this level of nepotism and nationalism is standard at a flag carrier.
Wrong. Try here, it is really not that hard (provided you can read french, which is not that hard either, I can read english...):

http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/etre-pilote-de-ligne-air-france

By the way, I just spent most of last week with a british F/O, a very fine gentleman who happens to fly for AF... But I am afraid there will be no more like him joining the airline past 2019. Not by Airfrance's fault, mind you...
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 21:00
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Originally Posted by fab777
Wrong. Try here, it is really not that hard (provided you can read french, which is not that hard either, I can read english...):

ĘTRE PILOTE DE LIGNE A AIR FRANCE | Air France - Corporate

By the way, I just spent most of last week with a british F/O, a very fine gentleman who happens to fly for AF... But I am afraid there will be no more like him joining the airline past 2019. Not by Airfrance's fault, mind you...
Very Good reply...
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 21:03
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I can only post what I was told by a French national who I fly with. Why would they wish to lie?
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 21:19
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Originally Posted by polax52
My experience of the UK CAA from times gone by has one been of a bureaucratic nightmare established by unelected Civil Servants. I don't see EASA as being worse. In fact all the arguments put forward by Brexiters regarding their opinions of Brussels just seem to sum up the old CAA to me.
Cap 371 was based on decades of research and scientific study that the CAA listened to and then adapted the rules. I don’t think EASA listen to anybody apart from the airlines. They exemplify everything that is wrong with the EU.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 22:10
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Originally Posted by fab777
Wrong. Try here, it is really not that hard (provided you can read french, which is not that hard either, I can read english...):

ĘTRE PILOTE DE LIGNE A AIR FRANCE | Air France - Corporate
Obviously if AF had a racist/nepotist hiring policy, they would make sure to mention that in their recruitment advertising.
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