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Pax in cockpit during flight

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Pax in cockpit during flight

Old 24th Mar 2018, 20:50
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Pax in cockpit during flight

I recently saw a post on Facebook, a friend of a friend, showing photos and text written that implied he was a passenger sitting on the jumpseat on arrival at Barcelona.

I am just wondering what is the policies for Spanish airlines on this? Companies like Vueling, Iberia and Air Europe?

I would have thought this would have be a no go.
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:31
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Company pilot / cc traveling off duty?
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:36
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp
Company pilot / cc traveling off duty?
Or a Jumpseater? I don't know if it's the same for Spain and/or EU but in the US I can ride in the cockpit jumpseat of another airline (with proper identification and employment verification, of course.)
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:39
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Or a Jumpseater? I don't know if it's the same for Spain and/or EU but in the US I can ride in the cockpit jumpseat of another airline (with proper identification and employment verification, of course.)
Near impossible in Europe these days.
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:53
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Originally Posted by kenparry
Near impossible in Europe these days.
Is it? That's a shame. Well on-line deadheading aircrew or cabin crew is still a possible explanation.
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Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:55
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Air France... at 6:00

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Old 25th Mar 2018, 00:14
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World's Gone Mad.

The Bad Boys will do precisely what they want to do precisely when they want to do it, for a start, just what is the point of making legitimate crew - which can be ascertained - jump through the present line of stupid hoops, then give them a multi million dollar flying bomb that they can spear into the nearest Alp, and also sit on a flight deck seat with an emergency fire / evacuation axe to hand ?

Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 25th Mar 2018 at 00:39.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 02:29
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Note this person would not have been airline crew, it seems he was just an ordinary passenger.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 04:00
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In quite some Airlines, it is the PIC decision whom to allow on the flightdeck during flight. All allowed by the authorities and is completely safe.
Note that this severely restricted when flying into the US and UK 🙄
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 07:01
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Oh and by the way, I an quite happy that I can still take my 15 year old son with me on the flight deck jump seat. Because I am the commander. As long as it is not to/from the US or UK. (European legacy carrier)
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 09:22
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Some people are very surprised that some people (not everyone!) who are not crew can still be the cockpit during flight. Why is that so strange? Letís go back to basics. We are trying to stop the bad guys. I donít know who the bad guys are but I know itís not my immediate family or my friends. I also know my colleagues pretty well. So I do not have problem with people who might be described as passengers in the flight deck. What I do have a problem with are the pathetic rules imposed in the name of security in the UK. For example, as along as I donít have a yoghurt or a pointy stick I can get airside in Britain and take a fully fuelled plane full of passengers anywhere I wish. Not at many airports in Spain or Italy though. They donít really care what Iím carrying but they do want to know Iím a member of the crew and expect me to be there at a certain time. Also, the UKís post 9/11 reaction was to prohibit aircraft from overflying nuclear power stations. To make sure that could be done, they published the precise location of each one. That would save a lot of FMS programming! Unfortunately ridiculous, ill-considered rules are shoved into Ops manual by myopic clowns in the UK CAA and people believe that this serves some purpose. Iíd suggest that the people who need to get a grip are those who think these rules have any value whatsoever.

As for the OPís initial question; unless you know the crew very well, PAX in the flighdeck is permitted in OPs manual, the flight is it not on a UK or Irish airline, the flight is not to or from the UK or USA and a variety of other hoops and hurdles are cleared, access is most unlikely.

PM

ps. It entirely legitimate to point out dreadful flaws in security. The CAA winge and whine about not discussing security in public but miserably fail to close the gaping hole in their security procedures imposed on us that are meant to be for the good of all. Letís have proper security and not the box ticking or the pathetic pantomime that is expensively performed at every airport every day.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 09:27
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I was a pax once on a Spanish domestic flight with Spanair some years ago. The F/O’s jumpseating kid was in out out of the Flightdeck so many times, I thought it was a playground. The distractions of a badly behaved 10 year old in the Flightdeck are potentially dangerous imho, let alone Joe Public.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:12
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This is yet another boring subject which pops up from time to time on this forum. Because this forum is predominantly read by Brits and Americans they base their opinions on the very strict rules applied by Britain and the USA. I have mentioned several times before that there are many nations around the globe that do not promote such draconian regulations on their aircrew, with the exception of when they are flying to the USA. It is certainly not uncommon to see "passengers" on the FD of many non-British/American carriers in European skies. Generally these will be persons that are either personally known to a crew member or who may have professional aviation credentials. It is left at the Captain's discretion, as was always the case in the past. I have made several FD visits and landings on European carriers in the past 10 years. They are not breaking any individual company SOPs/rules by doing so. In answer to the OP's question I can say that it is definitely par for the course on most Spanish carriers, as it is with many from other countries too. They do however respect and enforce regulations set by the USA when in their airspace for instance.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 14:45
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https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/28/w...ssian-jet.html
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 15:06
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Originally Posted by CaptainMongo

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Old 25th Mar 2018, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
This is yet another boring subject which pops up from time to time on this forum. Because this forum is predominantly read by Brits and Americans they base their opinions on the very strict rules applied by Britain and the USA. I have mentioned several times before that there are many nations around the globe that do not promote such draconian regulations on their aircrew, with the exception of when they are flying to the USA. It is certainly not uncommon to see "passengers" on the FD of many non-British/American carriers in European skies. Generally these will be persons that are either personally known to a crew member or who may have professional aviation credentials. It is left at the Captain's discretion, as was always the case in the past. I have made several FD visits and landings on European carriers in the past 10 years. They are not breaking any individual company SOPs/rules by doing so. In answer to the OP's question I can say that it is definitely par for the course on most Spanish carriers, as it is with many from other countries too. They do however respect and enforce regulations set by the USA when in their airspace for instance.
After I achieved my Command I managed to get a trip in which my father was a passenger. He was retired after 49 years in aviation, from an apprentice engineer to a Training Captain and eventually Chief of Air Accident Investigation. Could he join his son on the flight deck - NO! UK rules AGH............
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 16:40
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Originally Posted by kenparry
Near impossible in Europe these days.
No it's not if you are a company FO or Capt; deadheading and in uniform.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 17:26
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Originally Posted by PA28161
No it's not if you are a company FO or Capt; deadheading and in uniform.
His comment was in reference to off-line jumpseating.
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Old 25th Mar 2018, 18:48
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Originally Posted by recceguy
Simply don't ask - otherwise you give the opportunity to a miserable desk rat to say no to you, something which will get this individual overexcited for years ...
If I allowed my retired pilot father to jumpseat one of my flights without asking for permission, I would certainly be looking for another job shortly afterwards. Somebody, passenger or crew would undoubtedly report it (don't get hung up on comradery in my airline, it's just certainty that somebody would report it). I don't necessarily agree with the rules, but in my UK airline that is what would happen.
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Old 26th Mar 2018, 00:06
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Some comments here are interesting, as itís in the interest of safety.

It seems to be a big anti UK and USA sentiment here on the security issues. In some cases I can understand the frustration of this.

However we have the Russian kid in the cockpit crash and we have the missing MH370.

Itís important here not mixing up airline crew and ordinary passengers.
SOPs from ALL companies I have knowledge of would not allow any passengers without prior approval of management in the cockpit.
I was just curious in this, apparently itís. It just UK and USA where accidents happen.

Btw I managed to bring several youghurts with me trough UK security without an issue. I also agree that some of the rules can seem draconian, however I am not convinced letting a passenger into the flight deck is one of them, as history has shown us.
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