Pax in cockpit during flight

[ExSp33db1rd]

I have flown on the jump seat of an AF 777

But aren't AF "different" ? e.g. is it true that AF pilots are served a glass of wine as part of their crew meal ?

And there was me thinking it was The Department for Transport that is responsible for the security of UK airports.

No doubt that they are - just why don't they apply a bit of commonsense to it ? 'Elf and Safety and Security and the like Gone Mad.

[Hotel Tango]

But aren't AF "different" ? e.g. is it true that AF pilots are served a glass of wine as part of their crew meal ?

It was true, but those days are loooong gone!

[Flocks]

As said before, we all are different with different point of view, depending of our culture, education, company we work for.

I travel regularly on the jump seat with other European airline, always like to chat with fellow other pilots, not all airline are strict as UK or US. In my 3 previous airlines I could bring anybody I want if captain was okay with that, we had ATC guys, we had aviation lovers, family, ... Never been an issue for me.

In my present airline (Uk), impossible. We can show cockpit on the ground if someone want to see, but once lock, it is lock. Even me when I m positioning, I can have the jumpseat only if cabin full ... And only positioning.

Does mean, if I m on standby traveling for my own in my own airline, if plane is full, I ll just not board ... Except one day, I called crewing and told them, if I was not boarding this plane, they would have no captain the next day ... And they finally let me do.

When I was FO, I even had a captain who refused a cabin crew on the jump seat, even if she was on training (so as extra) and usually we take them at least one sector in cockpit.

Now, even if I disagree with all those rules, I m here to respect them, so I ll not bend any rule, my airline doesn't want anybody in cockpit, so it will be.

I d like to know, in all the world of aviation, how many crash occurred because the crew agreed to let a guest in the cockpit.

I know one was the Russian with the kid but I said I was okay to let a guest in the cockpit, not them to "fly" the plane.
One was the 9/11 ... But I don't remember they nicely asked to see the cockpit for a selfie with the captain, so does not count.
One was the FedEx, the positioning engineer tried to kill the crew for insurance ... But it is an employee, so same could happen today (German wings ...)

I don't remember any stories with a passenger on jump seat and it has been positively found, it had distracted the crew.

++

[Hotel Tango]

Flocks, I said the same some posts back. There was also the disgruntled ex PSA guy who shot both pilots on a domestic flight. However, statistically there have been more accidents attributed to pilot induced suicides then accidents caused by third party FD visitors.

[A Squared]

Originally Posted by Hotel Tango

Flocks, I said the same some posts back. There was also the disgruntled ex PSA guy who shot both pilots on a domestic flight. However, statistically there have been more accidents attributed to pilot induced suicides then accidents caused by third party FD visitors.

Airline accidents? I only know of 2, the GermanWings crash and (arguably) the Egyptair crash. have there been others?

[Hotel Tango]

Airline accidents? I only know of 2, the GermanWings crash and (arguably) the Egyptair crash. have there been others?

The answer in short is yes, at least 6 that I know of.

[Gipsy Queen]

I'm just a time-expired CPL so really shouldn't be here but I do find this subject very depressing. My wife once was returning to the UK and requested a FD visit. The crew were ex-RAF and she shamelessly did some name-dropping to be invited to stay in the jump seat for a night landing into Gatwick. More than 30 years later she still counts this as one of the most interesting and exciting things she has done and remains profoundly grateful for having been allowed this experience.

I wonder how many similar opportunities which innocently might be enjoyed by others are denied them by the dead hand of a craven bureaucracy stifled by a political correctness which contrives to make our present world a bland and thoroughly over-regulated place. I'm glad I'm not any younger and particularly glad that I do not have to work in the present aviation culture.

But then I'm an old man from a very different era - not many of us with a Miles Gemini in the log left! . . . .

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by A Squared

Airline accidents? I only know of 2, the GermanWings crash and (arguably) the Egyptair crash. have there been others?

Since 1976, there are at least a dozen cases where it's known or strongly suspected that a pilot intentionally crashed or attempted to crash a commercial airliner. Here is one list, but it's not comprehensive:
ASN News List of aircraft accidents and incidents intentionally caused by pilots - ASN News

[Hotel Tango]

Well said Gipsy Queen! I'm not a CPL holder nor do I have the wonderful Miles Gemini in my log, but I very much share your sentiments. Being in ATC I spent most of my passenger flying life in the FD of airliners and learned a great deal from my experiences. My boys knew their aviation stuff and generally impressed crews so much that one or the other (or both in some types such as the L-1011 Tristar we often flew on) were allowed to stay for the landing. They were the Golden Days of aviation and I'm so happy that my boys and I were able to enjoy them.

I'm glad I'm not any younger and particularly glad that I do not have to work in the present aviation culture.

The same goes for me!

[Gordomac]

Enjoyable reading about the past. Before the thread is moved to "nostalgia" or something, I agree with all who loved the history but quickly had to align with company policy after 9-11 or face very serious discipline. I also fully appreciate other's postings on how FD visits helped them into the career.


My first was MEA Viscount, Tehran - Beirut. NZ Skipper even presented me with a spare set of wings which became a trophy for me and huge inspiration. Then came BOAC Constellation.Didn't get me into Hamble though. Cally Britannia; oh yes, CP even let me fly it until I made all cabin crew down the back very sick. It was empty & I was just a Trainee Crewing Assistant. Laker, cripes, where does it end ? Stacks on the Brit & 707. Thanks to all that, successful in getting into the profession, I even flew RHS for Laker on the 1-11.


I returned the compliment by encouraging FD visits until 9-11 and could appreciate the Company rationale thereafter.


FLASH 8; I think the skipper on that trip was me.


Need to move on.Old days and golden certainly. Let that sweet little kid in for a visit these days & there might be a nasty Daddy right behind him. Take care out there guys.

[radken]

In 1968, on R&R from Nam, in the dark somewhere east of the Philippines, saw the ckpt dr was open and the lights were on dim...Looked pretty inviting so I got up and strolled in. FE had his feet propped up and was reading a novel...rt seat guy was busy ckng Loran (as I found out soon) data, and the Capt was sound asleep. I was a non pilot, btw, and co-pilot, knowing this, couldn’t wait to give me the $10 show around his little office in the sky. Even the FE got into it...Capt. was still asleep...that is until the 10kt autothrottle speed reduction demo began. Ha ha
You had to be there to witness how fast that left seat guy came to life the instant the speed began bleeding off. I don’t think his eyes were even open yet when “What the hell is going on!!” ripped out of his mouth as he sat straight up, looking for answers, and staring alternately at his f.o. and the panel... LOL... It was a humorous, great moment we all shared as his panic quickly subsided and laughter engulfed us in the front, and even the first few rows of tired, beat up guys, guys who hadn’t had much to laugh at all for the last six months or so of their lives.
A year and a half later I became a Private Pilot, and kept on flying until pricing forced me back into Zen and motorcycles full time. ‘Twas a different time indeed back in the golden days of the “friendly skies.” Keep reminiscing ya’ll..It’s practically all we have to hang on to anymore.

[wan2fly99]

I remeber before 9/11 always got to airport early and tried to talk to Captains. Explained was a GA pilot and trying to succeed in aviation.
Most of the time i was able to seat up front with them.

Nowadays forget it.
I hate flying now. Seat in those tight seats and thinking whats going on up front.

I wish that at least they would pipe ATC thru one of the radio channels they have

[EDDT]

Originally Posted by wan2fly99

I remeber before 9/11 always got to airport early and tried to talk to Captains. Explained was a GA pilot and trying to succeed in aviation.
Most of the time i was able to seat up front with them.

Nowadays forget it.

Large german carrier here. Have 2 Jumps in the A320 cockpits. Still doing this, when people ask politely + seem legit and show their PPL. Met some interesting contacts over the years and had nice talks during 2 hours flight. You must know, private flying in Germany is not exactly a poor man's hobby.

I remember a Vueling captain being overly thankful when taking him to Bilbao. Seems a bigger issue with other airlines, I can confirm.

Staff or their spouses and family members usually ride in the cockpit, when flight is fully booked, so they don't hinder the crew in the galley.

[Highway1]

Originally Posted by anchorhold

Things have gone from one extreme in the 1990, when pax though it was part of the deal to visit the flightdeck, but these days it concerns me how difficult it may be for legitimate people to experience a jumpseat flight as part of thier training, such as ATC cadets, meteorolgists, aircraft engineers and research scientists. The later I mention because their are number scientists in Europe who are studying the feasabilty of single crew airline operation, I can not imagine the have had the jumpseat experience.

As an Engineer I never had any problems getting on the jumpseat - in fact it was one of my greatest annoyances when check-in staff would give away my (blocked) Business Class seat and expect me to sit on the flt deck without asking me.

[Ollie Onion]

In New Zealand the Captain of the flight can authorise Anyone to ride the jumpseat, in Australia you can’t. It has always seemed weird to me that I can take an unknown person on the jumpseat based on a 10 cent piece of plastic that you could get knocked up in Hong Kong or China but I can’t take my Wife / Friend or Family on the Jumpseat as they may be a security risk.