Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Pax in cockpit during flight

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Pax in cockpit during flight

Old 24th Mar 2018, 20:50
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EU
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pax in cockpit during flight

I recently saw a post on Facebook, a friend of a friend, showing photos and text written that implied he was a passenger sitting on the jumpseat on arrival at Barcelona.

I am just wondering what is the policies for Spanish airlines on this? Companies like Vueling, Iberia and Air Europe?

I would have thought this would have be a no go.
BusAirDriver is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:31
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Company pilot / cc traveling off duty?
CaptainProp is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:36
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptainProp
Company pilot / cc traveling off duty?
Or a Jumpseater? I don't know if it's the same for Spain and/or EU but in the US I can ride in the cockpit jumpseat of another airline (with proper identification and employment verification, of course.)
A Squared is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:39
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brighton
Posts: 962
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Or a Jumpseater? I don't know if it's the same for Spain and/or EU but in the US I can ride in the cockpit jumpseat of another airline (with proper identification and employment verification, of course.)
Near impossible in Europe these days.
kenparry is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:53
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kenparry
Near impossible in Europe these days.
Is it? That's a shame. Well on-line deadheading aircrew or cabin crew is still a possible explanation.
A Squared is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2018, 22:55
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Within 3 hours of a suitable alternate
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Air France... at 6:00

Capt Ecureuil is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 00:14
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 89
Posts: 31
Received 13 Likes on 8 Posts
World's Gone Mad.

The Bad Boys will do precisely what they want to do precisely when they want to do it, for a start, just what is the point of making legitimate crew - which can be ascertained - jump through the present line of stupid hoops, then give them a multi million dollar flying bomb that they can spear into the nearest Alp, and also sit on a flight deck seat with an emergency fire / evacuation axe to hand ?

Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 25th Mar 2018 at 00:39.
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 02:29
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EU
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Note this person would not have been airline crew, it seems he was just an ordinary passenger.
BusAirDriver is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 04:00
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kopavogur
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In quite some Airlines, it is the PIC decision whom to allow on the flightdeck during flight. All allowed by the authorities and is completely safe.
Note that this severely restricted when flying into the US and UK 🙄
Icelanta is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 07:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 724
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Oh and by the way, I an quite happy that I can still take my 15 year old son with me on the flight deck jump seat. Because I am the commander. As long as it is not to/from the US or UK. (European legacy carrier)
fox niner is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 09:22
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 67
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some people are very surprised that some people (not everyone!) who are not crew can still be the cockpit during flight. Why is that so strange? Let’s go back to basics. We are trying to stop the bad guys. I don’t know who the bad guys are but I know it’s not my immediate family or my friends. I also know my colleagues pretty well. So I do not have problem with people who might be described as passengers in the flight deck. What I do have a problem with are the pathetic rules imposed in the name of security in the UK. For example, as along as I don’t have a yoghurt or a pointy stick I can get airside in Britain and take a fully fuelled plane full of passengers anywhere I wish. Not at many airports in Spain or Italy though. They don’t really care what I’m carrying but they do want to know I’m a member of the crew and expect me to be there at a certain time. Also, the UK’s post 9/11 reaction was to prohibit aircraft from overflying nuclear power stations. To make sure that could be done, they published the precise location of each one. That would save a lot of FMS programming! Unfortunately ridiculous, ill-considered rules are shoved into Ops manual by myopic clowns in the UK CAA and people believe that this serves some purpose. I’d suggest that the people who need to get a grip are those who think these rules have any value whatsoever.

As for the OP’s initial question; unless you know the crew very well, PAX in the flighdeck is permitted in OPs manual, the flight is it not on a UK or Irish airline, the flight is not to or from the UK or USA and a variety of other hoops and hurdles are cleared, access is most unlikely.

PM

ps. It entirely legitimate to point out dreadful flaws in security. The CAA winge and whine about not discussing security in public but miserably fail to close the gaping hole in their security procedures imposed on us that are meant to be for the good of all. Let’s have proper security and not the box ticking or the pathetic pantomime that is expensively performed at every airport every day.
Piltdown Man is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 09:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: 🇬🇧🇪🇸
Posts: 2,094
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was a pax once on a Spanish domestic flight with Spanair some years ago. The F/O’s jumpseating kid was in out out of the Flightdeck so many times, I thought it was a playground. The distractions of a badly behaved 10 year old in the Flightdeck are potentially dangerous imho, let alone Joe Public.
Nightstop is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 10:12
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is yet another boring subject which pops up from time to time on this forum. Because this forum is predominantly read by Brits and Americans they base their opinions on the very strict rules applied by Britain and the USA. I have mentioned several times before that there are many nations around the globe that do not promote such draconian regulations on their aircrew, with the exception of when they are flying to the USA. It is certainly not uncommon to see "passengers" on the FD of many non-British/American carriers in European skies. Generally these will be persons that are either personally known to a crew member or who may have professional aviation credentials. It is left at the Captain's discretion, as was always the case in the past. I have made several FD visits and landings on European carriers in the past 10 years. They are not breaking any individual company SOPs/rules by doing so. In answer to the OP's question I can say that it is definitely par for the course on most Spanish carriers, as it is with many from other countries too. They do however respect and enforce regulations set by the USA when in their airspace for instance.
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 14:45
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: 43N
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/28/w...ssian-jet.html
CaptainMongo is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 15:06
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptainMongo

arketip is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 16:04
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
This is yet another boring subject which pops up from time to time on this forum. Because this forum is predominantly read by Brits and Americans they base their opinions on the very strict rules applied by Britain and the USA. I have mentioned several times before that there are many nations around the globe that do not promote such draconian regulations on their aircrew, with the exception of when they are flying to the USA. It is certainly not uncommon to see "passengers" on the FD of many non-British/American carriers in European skies. Generally these will be persons that are either personally known to a crew member or who may have professional aviation credentials. It is left at the Captain's discretion, as was always the case in the past. I have made several FD visits and landings on European carriers in the past 10 years. They are not breaking any individual company SOPs/rules by doing so. In answer to the OP's question I can say that it is definitely par for the course on most Spanish carriers, as it is with many from other countries too. They do however respect and enforce regulations set by the USA when in their airspace for instance.
After I achieved my Command I managed to get a trip in which my father was a passenger. He was retired after 49 years in aviation, from an apprentice engineer to a Training Captain and eventually Chief of Air Accident Investigation. Could he join his son on the flight deck - NO! UK rules AGH............
Wally777 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 16:40
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kenparry
Near impossible in Europe these days.
No it's not if you are a company FO or Capt; deadheading and in uniform.
PA28161 is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 17:26
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Alaska, PNG, etc.
Age: 60
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PA28161
No it's not if you are a company FO or Capt; deadheading and in uniform.
His comment was in reference to off-line jumpseating.
A Squared is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2018, 18:48
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by recceguy
Simply don't ask - otherwise you give the opportunity to a miserable desk rat to say no to you, something which will get this individual overexcited for years ...
If I allowed my retired pilot father to jumpseat one of my flights without asking for permission, I would certainly be looking for another job shortly afterwards. Somebody, passenger or crew would undoubtedly report it (don't get hung up on comradery in my airline, it's just certainty that somebody would report it). I don't necessarily agree with the rules, but in my UK airline that is what would happen.
giggitygiggity is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2018, 00:06
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EU
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some comments here are interesting, as it’s in the interest of safety.

It seems to be a big anti UK and USA sentiment here on the security issues. In some cases I can understand the frustration of this.

However we have the Russian kid in the cockpit crash and we have the missing MH370.

It’s important here not mixing up airline crew and ordinary passengers.
SOPs from ALL companies I have knowledge of would not allow any passengers without prior approval of management in the cockpit.
I was just curious in this, apparently it’s. It just UK and USA where accidents happen.

Btw I managed to bring several youghurts with me trough UK security without an issue. I also agree that some of the rules can seem draconian, however I am not convinced letting a passenger into the flight deck is one of them, as history has shown us.
BusAirDriver is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.