Lufthansa Shuts Down Super Star Project March 15, 2018
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From the interesting linked document
That glass cockpit was / is nothing short of incredible. To be honest it would seem that the project - however crazy - was well underway. What will they do with it ?
Reasons for the project’s cancellation (or the „interruption of completion“ as our chiefs prefer to call it) are multiple and some of them will remain unclear even to us as long-term insiders, but we can assure that it was not a crew’s request for a glass cockpit that killed the Connie.
"Now Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr answered a question to the cost at the Groups General Meeting on Tuesday (May, 5): «The total cost of the project from 2007 to 2019, after we have stopped the project and brought the aircraft back to Bremen, is 150 million euros.» A large part of this, however, had been borne by external donors and sponsors."
So where exactly is the problem .. ?
So where exactly is the problem .. ?
We're talking donors, not venture capital...
Many moons ago when I worked at Lockheed Aircraft Service at JFK we serviced those Lufthansa L-1649's. Later we also worked them for Transatlantica Argentina which had bought them, I believe, from TWA. Air France had the parking spots right outside our line shack door at the International Arrivals Building (IAB) so I saw a lot of the L-1649's.
The "Super Star" was a magnificent looking aircraft with its slender 150-ft wing married to the graceful Constellation fuselage. It had a special model of the TC-18 engine with an increased reduction gear ratio but the engine installation and cowling were pretty much right out of the L-1049. Prop was wider chord and originally had hollow aluminum blades. These were changed to solid dural when one of the Air France planes came in with the welded leading edge seam split and stuffing hanging out.
Restoring the old bird was always going to be difficult. There were lots of L-1049's built in civil and military versions but only a few (44) of the Super Stars. Systems were completely different, It had a dual 3000 PSI hydraulic system for example in place of the 1700 PSI of all the other Connies. So even with two spare aircraft to rob from, parts were going to be near impossible to find. It is one thing to fabricate sheet metal parts but flight control components and the like would be like Hen's teeth. There must also have been a deal of difficulty in trying to shoe-horn a glass cockpits into that cramped Connie cockpit.
Still, it was a magnificent effort and I surely hope the aircraft will be reassembled for display if nothing else. The last efforts of Lockheed and Douglas in piston airliners were great looking aircraft and I am proud to have worked on them.
The "Super Star" was a magnificent looking aircraft with its slender 150-ft wing married to the graceful Constellation fuselage. It had a special model of the TC-18 engine with an increased reduction gear ratio but the engine installation and cowling were pretty much right out of the L-1049. Prop was wider chord and originally had hollow aluminum blades. These were changed to solid dural when one of the Air France planes came in with the welded leading edge seam split and stuffing hanging out.
Restoring the old bird was always going to be difficult. There were lots of L-1049's built in civil and military versions but only a few (44) of the Super Stars. Systems were completely different, It had a dual 3000 PSI hydraulic system for example in place of the 1700 PSI of all the other Connies. So even with two spare aircraft to rob from, parts were going to be near impossible to find. It is one thing to fabricate sheet metal parts but flight control components and the like would be like Hen's teeth. There must also have been a deal of difficulty in trying to shoe-horn a glass cockpits into that cramped Connie cockpit.
Still, it was a magnificent effort and I surely hope the aircraft will be reassembled for display if nothing else. The last efforts of Lockheed and Douglas in piston airliners were great looking aircraft and I am proud to have worked on them.
There's a similar example in Australia restored to airworthy condition - I've seen it fly at an air show - by the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society: https://hars.org.au/lockheed-c-121c-...constellation/
Maybe Lufthansa should give HARS theirs to fix?
Maybe Lufthansa should give HARS theirs to fix?
Lufthansa's problem was that they were far from completion and the FAA had signaled to not just rubber stamp the new glass cockpit and modifications. And the concept how to operate that airplane later on was not clear. Going transatlantic commercial IFR with some VIP cabin and bar? For what reason? It had to be stopped. They should have rebuilt their Ju 52 instead.
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Hmmm, confuses me a bit as the LH JU 52 has been operational under the Berlin Stiftung for decades and flying around.
Had the pleasure of taking a JU 52 flight with my wife and friends a few years back and see it flying around my neighbourhood frequently in the summer.
Had the pleasure of taking a JU 52 flight with my wife and friends a few years back and see it flying around my neighbourhood frequently in the summer.
It had been grounded since the swiss Ju accident in Switzerland with engine mount fatigue or similar and needs some major structural overhaul itself it seems. Funding has been put on hold as well.
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I was not aware.
Thank you for the correction @less hair. .
With 100LL prices close to 7 Euro a gallon I can not see how to operate that 4 engine piston plane anywhere in Europe. Transatlantik fuel cost for a Concorde would be cheaper than for that bird. Certification of a 737 MAX would be a breeze compared to a new Cert. of a Connie.
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There was a major difference between the Berlin Stiftung JU52 and the Connie project . the JU 52 ops was run by volunteers ( LH employees and crews on their free time ) ,operated for sightseeing , VFR only .
The aircraft was also not an original Ju42 as those flown in Switzerland or South Africa. It had a new modern cockpit and P& W engines .
While the Swiss JU52 accident precipitated the fate of the Ju52 ,it was not the only reason they stopped it as was explained to the staff at the time , although the full reasons were never mentioned.
The Connie project on the other hand was aimed at running commercial ops IFR across the Atlantic and therefore modifying the aircraft to modern safety standards.
The modernization was part of the plan. The complications , delays and costs that arose in doing it were not ,
In any case if they had continued, this Corona crisis would have most probably ended the project as well.
The aircraft was also not an original Ju42 as those flown in Switzerland or South Africa. It had a new modern cockpit and P& W engines .
While the Swiss JU52 accident precipitated the fate of the Ju52 ,it was not the only reason they stopped it as was explained to the staff at the time , although the full reasons were never mentioned.
The Connie project on the other hand was aimed at running commercial ops IFR across the Atlantic and therefore modifying the aircraft to modern safety standards.
The modernization was part of the plan. The complications , delays and costs that arose in doing it were not ,
In any case if they had continued, this Corona crisis would have most probably ended the project as well.
Thanks for that document, I knew that the cockpit was partially funded by the Honeywell donation but would still incur large costs in installation and implementation. This makes it a lot clearer.
I think that somehow the Ju52 accident in Switzerland will have had a significant impact on this project. It certainly showed that there is a risk in flying in an old aircraft and it wouldn't surprise me that the public perception of this will have impacted the viability of a project such as the Starliner. If the aircraft ends up in a museum, there will still be a very nice Starliner preserved for us to drool over. That's better than the airframe sitting outside somewhere, rotting away.
There is also the Breitling Constallation, that has been sold to a German foundation which plans to get it flying again.
I think that somehow the Ju52 accident in Switzerland will have had a significant impact on this project. It certainly showed that there is a risk in flying in an old aircraft and it wouldn't surprise me that the public perception of this will have impacted the viability of a project such as the Starliner. If the aircraft ends up in a museum, there will still be a very nice Starliner preserved for us to drool over. That's better than the airframe sitting outside somewhere, rotting away.
There is also the Breitling Constallation, that has been sold to a German foundation which plans to get it flying again.
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For my comment I might be tared and feathered by some, but these old aircraft belong, nicely preserved, to a museum. You can not bring back the atmoshere and the spirit of the 50΄s ( or even earlier ). In my younger years I travelled on all Douglas Props, except for DC 1,2, and 5 ), on Super Constellations and on the Convair Twins, flying, i.e. air travel in these days was a completely different experience. I have seen D-AQUI very frequently, also had a ride on " Tante Ju ", the " shell " being Junkers, but otherwise it was a high tech aircraft, the interior brand new with leather seats, etc.. I have spent a great deal of my life travelling by air, and worked in the airline business much of my working life, I always felt that an aircraft has had its life when taken out of service, and that, very often, for good reasons. My love for aviation is still great, but for the sake of air safety, museums are the best option.
Last edited by BEA 71; 13th May 2020 at 14:00. Reason: Spelling Error
I agree. They have to be modified too much in order to keep them airworthy. Fur current needs newly built airplanes like those US made Me 262 or the Swiss made Junkers F 13 will do. Plus maybe a Basler BT-67 or two for scenic tourist flights and similar. Even Mustangs and Stearmans can be made new.
The originals are too precious and belong under some roof. No offense but I'd even put the Lancaster into some museum to keep and protect this original forever. The days of expendable cheapo war surplus WW II planes are long gone.
The originals are too precious and belong under some roof. No offense but I'd even put the Lancaster into some museum to keep and protect this original forever. The days of expendable cheapo war surplus WW II planes are long gone.
Last edited by Less Hair; 13th May 2020 at 19:58.
It's approaching heresy to put modern cockpit technology in a rare classic airplane like this one. It should be restored to original cockpit instrumentation ( or as closely as parts availability allows). If newer tech is needed to get it from Pt. A to Pt. B, some add-on/plug-ins can be used to get there. It won't be in regular service shooting Cat 3 approaches.
Drain Bamaged
WARNING-unpopular opinion to follow:
It's approaching heresy to put modern cockpit technology in a rare classic airplane like this one. It should be restored to original cockpit instrumentation ( or as closely as parts availability allows). If newer tech is needed to get it from Pt. A to Pt. B, some add-on/plug-ins can be used to get there. It won't be in regular service shooting Cat 3 approaches.
It's approaching heresy to put modern cockpit technology in a rare classic airplane like this one. It should be restored to original cockpit instrumentation ( or as closely as parts availability allows). If newer tech is needed to get it from Pt. A to Pt. B, some add-on/plug-ins can be used to get there. It won't be in regular service shooting Cat 3 approaches.
I agree with your unpopular opinion, provided that the planned operation supports it. As Lufthansa was planning to operate this Starliner as an airliner I can see why they went for the flightdeck upgrade. Have a look at the two Martin Mars at Sproat Lake, one of them has had a significant flight deck upgrade which is definitively not in keeping with the age of the type, but it did enable the aircraft to be operated for its purpose as a firebomber and probably made it somewhat safer to operate as well.