Alaska Airlines FO Alleges Rape by Captain on MSP Layover
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No evidence is required for a civil lawsuit complaint.
Huge, huge, difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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There is no evidence, only 2 accounts of what happened that night, maybe his account is true, maybe hers is true, maybe both are invention, we will never know. Her lawyers have told her she has no chance of a winning a case against him and could be sued for defamination if she tries, so they have dreamt up some kind of unfair treatment case against the employer.
The employer is in a no win position, they have to respond to the case so it is going to cost a great deal in legal costs, they are likely to loose a court hearing with a jury because a jury always favors the poor defendant against the big bad company. So they will settle out of court with a NDA, that's the way it is, a big payday for her and the lawyers, nothing whatsoever to do with " me too ".
The employer is in a no win position, they have to respond to the case so it is going to cost a great deal in legal costs, they are likely to loose a court hearing with a jury because a jury always favors the poor defendant against the big bad company. So they will settle out of court with a NDA, that's the way it is, a big payday for her and the lawyers, nothing whatsoever to do with " me too ".
A wide gap between civil and criminal law. A criminal complaint in the U.S. is filed by either the district attorney or a grand jury, and only after probable-cause evidence has been presented in support of the complaint.
No evidence is required for a civil lawsuit complaint.
Huge, huge, difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No evidence is required for a civil lawsuit complaint.
Huge, huge, difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suspect it's same in most if not all states in US.
And a civil case against the employer often makes good legal sense (not just because of deep pockets) if the cause of action occurred while the employed individual was on company time and business and company policies governed behavior for safety or other reasons
Consider, a car driven by an employee of a common carrier leaves the road and smashes through your your fence. The evidence to meet the (quite properly) very high bar to obtain a criminal conviction for trespass is insufficient perhaps because you can't establish the identity of the driver of he claims persuasively he swerved to avoid a child.
Still you sue the company for damages to have your fence repaired and to recover the costs you incurred while the fence was damaged as a consequence of the trespass. Those losses could be significant depending on the circumstances and could include punitive and well as compensatory damages if gross negligence (such as the driver, irrespective of the circumstances, was in violation of employer's safety policies regarding route and driving time.)
Do you really believe that your decision to sue for damages should be pilloried because a criminal conviction was unobtainable for any reason, including (perhaps) your own failure to secure evidence or your confusion in the immediate aftermath?
I'm not drawing conclusions. I'm simply trying to point out that the absence of a criminal complaint or even a report to police does not rule out legitimate cause for civil action.
I fully admit this is an imperfect analogy and I'm not trying to be argumentative, simply that it is unfair to presume damages didn't result or an act didn't occur because an individual or the state chose not to seek a criminal charge.
Last edited by voyageur9; 23rd Mar 2018 at 13:35. Reason: typo
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Then, the defendant can sue the plaintiff for malicious prosecution.
Depending upon the facts presently known to Alaska Airlines, they might take the plaintiff to the mat, so to speak, rather than caving to a confidential settlement.
(Vexatious litigant in the U.S. is generally one who files repetitive frivolous lawsuits.)
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Depending upon the facts presently known to Alaska Airlines, they might take the plaintiff to the mat.
Especially if they have seen the mysterious security video and it casts doubt on the FO's version. They would easily have seen it if the hotel (not in a great position so far) let them. Why not?
Especially if they have seen the mysterious security video and it casts doubt on the FO's version. They would easily have seen it if the hotel (not in a great position so far) let them. Why not?
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A wide gap between civil and criminal law. A criminal complaint in the U.S. is filed by either the district attorney or a grand jury, and only after probable-cause evidence has been presented in support of the complaint.
No evidence is required for a civil lawsuit complaint.
Huge, huge, difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No evidence is required for a civil lawsuit complaint.
Huge, huge, difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the issue was not about the difference between a civil and a criminal charge. It was only about the nature of a filing document, i.e. the Complaint.
and whether or not the observation that the "suit" appears "long on accusation and short on evidence" was helpful or not.
as My Cousin Vinny would say, "I'm not laying my cards on the table b4 the bid."
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the issue was not about the difference between a civil and a criminal charge. It was only about the nature of a filing document, i.e. the Complaint.
and whether or not the observation that the "suit" appears "long on accusation and short on evidence" was helpful or not.
as My Cousin Vinny would say, "I'm not laying my cards on the table b4 the bid."
and whether or not the observation that the "suit" appears "long on accusation and short on evidence" was helpful or not.
as My Cousin Vinny would say, "I'm not laying my cards on the table b4 the bid."
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It's worth reiterating that we only have one account; Hers. Neither the captain in question nor Alaska have publicly made any statements about the incident. (other than Alaska's non-statement that they are investigating and take this seriously) All information (true or false) that we have before us has been supplied by Pina.
Last edited by A Squared; 24th Mar 2018 at 06:05.
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I was rather assuming that the captain has been interviewed by the airline about the background to this complaint and of course will put an innocent gloss on his account, because something happened. The fact that both were unable to fly next day will have been noted on his record, anything further will damage his career and maybe personal life.
Her case that she was treated wrongly by the company has some merit, according to earlier posts she took 6 months leave (voluntary?) whereas he continued flying, did she receive the " correct" handling by the company. Together with the media appearances it is publicity the company needs to get rid of quickly, does anyone want to bet against her getting a payoff.
Her case that she was treated wrongly by the company has some merit, according to earlier posts she took 6 months leave (voluntary?) whereas he continued flying, did she receive the " correct" handling by the company. Together with the media appearances it is publicity the company needs to get rid of quickly, does anyone want to bet against her getting a payoff.
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I was rather assuming that the captain has been interviewed by the airline about the background to this complaint and of course will put an innocent gloss on his account, because something happened. The fact that both were unable to fly next day will have been noted on his record, anything further will damage his career and maybe personal life.
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Her case that she was treated wrongly by the company after the event has some merit.
Maybe, but that is not the main complaint in the lawsuit. It is that Workplace Rape took place and she wants damages for that.
Maybe, but that is not the main complaint in the lawsuit. It is that Workplace Rape took place and she wants damages for that.
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Interesting to see so many of those who tell non-pilots to lay off the keyboard now pretending to be lawyers. Stick to your day jobs boys - it’s quite clear you have little to no idea of what you type.
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Suit filed and publicity round done. Presumably next step is for Alaska Airlines to file a defence followed by judges directions, disclosure etc abd a hearing in 2019 though I'd expect it to be settled before the court doors open.
Here in UK we've recently had a deal of publicity about a multiple offender named John Warboys whose MO was to drug and rape/sexually assault youn women in back of his London taxi. Like complainant in this case they report odd tasting drink, walls closing in and eventually waking up grossly confused and with amnesia. Recollection of what might have happened to them comes more slowly than time for next shower etc. Forensics long gone.
All of which is corroborative as to why Ms Pinar might not have reported rape promptly. By time two and two were put together any criminal trial will be he said/she said where he presumably avers consent. Such cases, with a criminal standard of proof, are a lottery as to outcome and the sort of nightmare procedurally and evidentialy that lawyers will want to avoid. In UK CPS would drop it like a hot potato -would it be same with a DA in US?
OTOH whatever happened occurred on duty. The standard of proof is civil - balance of probability. Good legal advice for her would be that it's better to deal with it as an Employment issue. She goes down that line but Employer's inquiry seems to be going nowhere and he's getting the clean end of the stick while she feels she's getting the shi**y end.
Reasonable at that point to up the ante. That's how Employemnt cases go.
Here in UK we've recently had a deal of publicity about a multiple offender named John Warboys whose MO was to drug and rape/sexually assault youn women in back of his London taxi. Like complainant in this case they report odd tasting drink, walls closing in and eventually waking up grossly confused and with amnesia. Recollection of what might have happened to them comes more slowly than time for next shower etc. Forensics long gone.
All of which is corroborative as to why Ms Pinar might not have reported rape promptly. By time two and two were put together any criminal trial will be he said/she said where he presumably avers consent. Such cases, with a criminal standard of proof, are a lottery as to outcome and the sort of nightmare procedurally and evidentialy that lawyers will want to avoid. In UK CPS would drop it like a hot potato -would it be same with a DA in US?
OTOH whatever happened occurred on duty. The standard of proof is civil - balance of probability. Good legal advice for her would be that it's better to deal with it as an Employment issue. She goes down that line but Employer's inquiry seems to be going nowhere and he's getting the clean end of the stick while she feels she's getting the shi**y end.
Reasonable at that point to up the ante. That's how Employemnt cases go.