Dog dies in overhead locker on UA
Dog dies in overhead locker on United Airlines plane - BBC News
Whatever anyone here thinks about the rights and wrongs, it would appear this was a puppy in an approved container being transported according to the regulations of the carrier. The FA gave incorrect instructions to the passenger to place the carrier in the overhead locker. The passenger complied after protesting. The animal subsequently died in the locker. The airline has accepted full responsibility and stated the FA was in the wrong.
That seems pretty much done and dusted to me.
Whether American airlines should continue to emulate Noah's Ark is another subject..
Whatever anyone here thinks about the rights and wrongs, it would appear this was a puppy in an approved container being transported according to the regulations of the carrier. The FA gave incorrect instructions to the passenger to place the carrier in the overhead locker. The passenger complied after protesting. The animal subsequently died in the locker. The airline has accepted full responsibility and stated the FA was in the wrong.
That seems pretty much done and dusted to me.
Whether American airlines should continue to emulate Noah's Ark is another subject..
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I've seen this comment a bunch on this topic a heap but there is a big difference between airtight and appropriately ventilated. Cut the corner slightly off a large garbage bag, fill the bag with air, seal your head in it for a few hours and you will see what I mean. OK don't actually do that! (should go without saying but some people these days..) but you get my point. The bag isn't technically air tight but you wont survive without adequate ventilation. I see you are from Sydney but if you've ever been on a north american flight, there aint no breathing space in that over head bin once the first 20 passengers have boarded. This is winter there too so add jackets stuffed into every little space. The dog didn't stand a chance. The passanger had two choices, trust that the hostess knew what she was doing, or get dragged off the flight. It's not the passengers job to know the ventilation characteristics of the overhead bin.
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What puzzles me is how the US airlines balance the right for someone to bring a pig or bird onboard against the responsibility for rest of the passengers. When livestock takes a dump the smell will permeate the cabin.
The FAA really need to tighten their procedures on this.
With Ryanair the pooch and container would be non standard carry on baggage.If it won't go in the overhead locker it goes in the hold.
The FAA really need to tighten their procedures on this.
With Ryanair the pooch and container would be non standard carry on baggage.If it won't go in the overhead locker it goes in the hold.
I agree animals in the cabin are a pain in the back side... but lets not start using Ryanair as the company to set standards..... They've done enough for aviation.
Jay Sata, this animal was a small French Bulldog being transported within the terms and conditions of the airline.
Against UA's record of its FAs attitudes towards passengers, it is hardly surprising that the passenger felt that she had to comply with the FA's wholly unreasonable instructions. If not, she might well thought that she could have been forcibly off-loaded by the security thugs employed at US airports.
A much loved family pet died during 3 1/2 hours of being incarcerated in a dark, noisy space without the opportunity for any comfort from the owner, or even to have some water. Just take a moment to think of the terror which the poor little creature suffered, thanks to that flight attendant.
There is NOTHING amusing about this wholly avoidable tragedy. I hope that the FA is prosecuted for such a clear act of animal cruelty.
Against UA's record of its FAs attitudes towards passengers, it is hardly surprising that the passenger felt that she had to comply with the FA's wholly unreasonable instructions. If not, she might well thought that she could have been forcibly off-loaded by the security thugs employed at US airports.
A much loved family pet died during 3 1/2 hours of being incarcerated in a dark, noisy space without the opportunity for any comfort from the owner, or even to have some water. Just take a moment to think of the terror which the poor little creature suffered, thanks to that flight attendant.
The inflight PA chat from the flight deck must be amusing.
Last edited by BEagle; 14th Mar 2018 at 11:20.
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There is NOTHING amusing about this wholly avoidable tragedy. I hope that the FA is prosecuted for such a clear act of animal cruelty.
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I take your point BEgle but elsewhere in the world we either leave our pets at home or arrange suitable kennels.
Suggest you start another one about your perception of the rights and wrongs of people who take a different view to yours?
FYI
most EU (and USA) carriers allow a small dog (not talking about a service or emotional support dog) to be carried on board as hand luggage into the cabin in an approved pet carrier/holdall and it must go under your seat in front of you
I have seen dogs on KLM LH AZ Condor aerolloyd IB Transavia and Delta
you can even take one out of LHR on LH and KLM (but you cannot bring a pet dog back into the UK so easily - check pet passport regs etc before you start booking)
you can also take dogs in the cabin to the Scilly Isles from NQY and LEQ on the skybus twin otter where they have a dog box put in place of a row of two seats - so you can sit opposite them
see here this Condor/Thomas Cook video of taking a chihuahua on board starts almost after Capt does his welcome - Our EU neighbours all love to take their little dogs and furbabies on holiday to the Med
and the making of the video see from 2m 15s
Condor website link
https://www.condor.com/eu/flight-pre...s-in-cabin.jsp
Coco and missy at NQY waiting to board our twin otter #delayed
not impressed so far
lol
most EU (and USA) carriers allow a small dog (not talking about a service or emotional support dog) to be carried on board as hand luggage into the cabin in an approved pet carrier/holdall and it must go under your seat in front of you
I have seen dogs on KLM LH AZ Condor aerolloyd IB Transavia and Delta
you can even take one out of LHR on LH and KLM (but you cannot bring a pet dog back into the UK so easily - check pet passport regs etc before you start booking)
you can also take dogs in the cabin to the Scilly Isles from NQY and LEQ on the skybus twin otter where they have a dog box put in place of a row of two seats - so you can sit opposite them
see here this Condor/Thomas Cook video of taking a chihuahua on board starts almost after Capt does his welcome - Our EU neighbours all love to take their little dogs and furbabies on holiday to the Med
and the making of the video see from 2m 15s
Condor website link
https://www.condor.com/eu/flight-pre...s-in-cabin.jsp
Coco and missy at NQY waiting to board our twin otter #delayed
not impressed so far
lol
Last edited by rog747; 14th Mar 2018 at 12:38.
I think you are missing the point.
The flight attendant correctly assessed the space under the seat could not safely accommodate the container with dog. As with all carry on luggage if it does not fit under the seat it goes in the overhead locker.
In this case it should have gone in the hold where (in the rest of the world )animals are normally transported.
The chief cabin steward should have conferred with the captain prior to pushback.
The only exception in the USA for animals in the cabin is for those who perform a service.
I doubt this miniature bulldog had the mentality or temperament to be a guide dog.
However it appears there are plently of people who falsely claim their pets are service animals and this is the outcome.
The flight attendant correctly assessed the space under the seat could not safely accommodate the container with dog. As with all carry on luggage if it does not fit under the seat it goes in the overhead locker.
In this case it should have gone in the hold where (in the rest of the world )animals are normally transported.
The chief cabin steward should have conferred with the captain prior to pushback.
The only exception in the USA for animals in the cabin is for those who perform a service.
I doubt this miniature bulldog had the mentality or temperament to be a guide dog.
However it appears there are plently of people who falsely claim their pets are service animals and this is the outcome.
and FYI
- you CAN take small dogs on board in the cabin certainly in the EU and the USA on many airlines (but not on most UK airlines though) - it's nothing new - even a pal took his chihuahua transatlantic last year from FCO to LAX va MXP and JFK on AZ and Delta there and back
and years ago my pal took his yorkie from IBZ to JFK via PMI and MAD there and back on IB and Spantax
you cannot take the dog out of its carrier whilst inflight
for the FA to put this dog/puppy in the OH locker beggars belief - if however the pet carrier was too big to go under the seat (although united say it was an approved sized carrier) then the passenger should have been dealt with in another way - moved seats for more room or rebooked to a less full flight - something like that - the check in and gate staff would have known about the dog -
there is enough info out there for pax wanting to take a small dog on board and FA's should be used to it - it's not uncommon in the EU or the States
The FA here seems to have fu**ed up big style and united have accepted the blame - no consolation for the poor girl who lost her dog
Last edited by rog747; 14th Mar 2018 at 12:41.
That's a fair point rog747. I guess that in a world where people are allowed to bring pigs on an airplane my cynicism generator sometimes gets overworked.
Clareprop, if she really loved it that much, would she have let it be stuffed in an overhead locker? Hardcore animal lovers say "it was like a child to me" Would you let your child be stuffed into an airless overhead locker? There is a disconnect here. Here's what I will say - UA will undoubtedly pay out a lot more than the commercial worth of that dog. And FWIW - I think dogs are great.
Clareprop, if she really loved it that much, would she have let it be stuffed in an overhead locker? Hardcore animal lovers say "it was like a child to me" Would you let your child be stuffed into an airless overhead locker? There is a disconnect here. Here's what I will say - UA will undoubtedly pay out a lot more than the commercial worth of that dog. And FWIW - I think dogs are great.
- we all know what happens nowadays when you try and be reasonable let alone remonstrate with some cabin crew - it all gets way out of hand too quick -
the FSM should have been called etc etc etc to verify the ''issue'' the FA was having and sorted it - i cannot get in my head what was going on with the FA
remember this was not a 'jumped up weirdo' so-called service animal but an allowable pet on board (twas a puppy not a parrot peacock or a pot belly pig but a normal little puppy)
Totally agree with every point you make Rog - but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off (always an option) than allow the dog to be stuffed into an airless overhead locker, where it might - and indeed did - die. In fact, calling the FA's bluff and saying "in that case I'll get off" would've got the CSM and Captain's attention, as the aircraft wouldn't have been able to pushback until the passenger's hold luggage was off-loaded.
Totally agree with every point you make Rog - but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off (always an option) than allow the dog to be stuffed into an airless overhead locker, where it might - and indeed did - die. In fact, calling the FA's bluff and saying "in that case I'll get off" would've got the CSM and Captain's attention, as the aircraft wouldn't have been able to pushback until the passenger's hold luggage was off-loaded.
did you see the Condor safety video i posted - perhaps pass that on to the said FA and UAL?
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I've read that the passenger was travelling with a child and a baby, as well as the dog. Her journey would have been pretty stressful under the best of conditions. Deplaning would not have been an attractive prospect, especially as she could expect to be asked to put the dog in the locker in any alternative flight with the same airline.
I think she was not well-placed to sustain an argument with the FA. Anyone who's flown with a small child and a baby will know how stressful and preoccupying it is.
However, I'm also curious to know how airlines deal with dogs being allowed to travel on flights with allergic humans? I'm extremely allergic to dogs, not quite epipen level, but enough to swell up and alarm people. I've been on flights where snacks were withheld because there was a passenger with nut allergy on board. What about a passenger with dog allergy?
I think she was not well-placed to sustain an argument with the FA. Anyone who's flown with a small child and a baby will know how stressful and preoccupying it is.
However, I'm also curious to know how airlines deal with dogs being allowed to travel on flights with allergic humans? I'm extremely allergic to dogs, not quite epipen level, but enough to swell up and alarm people. I've been on flights where snacks were withheld because there was a passenger with nut allergy on board. What about a passenger with dog allergy?
but still can't help but think that I'd rather have got off
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A friend has traveled trans-Atlantic a couple of times with her pet Chihuahua in an approved bag. Although it did get out on the second occasion during the night and she and the CC had to search the cabin whilst poor folks were sleeping.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold.
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold.
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation.
Astonishingly, hoss123 wrote:
No blame can be placed on the owner of this little ten month old puppy. She complied with the carrier's requirements, yet the ignorance of their Flight Attendant caused the wholly avoidable death of a much-loved pet.
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner.
A friend has traveled trans-Atlantic a couple of times with her pet Chihuahua in an approved bag. Although it did get out on the second occasion during the night and she and the CC had to search the cabin whilst poor folks were sleeping.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold.
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation.
But clearly anything bigger than a cat should go in the hold.
In this case i would also put some blame on the owner. Bulldogs dont have the best respiration at the best of times, and unless it was young was probably too big for a cabin pet bag. She should have had some common sense to refuse to put it in the overhead, or to come on the plane in the first place with that situation.
and PaxBritannica
no way do you ever put pet dogs in the OH lockers on that flight or any other - no idea why you make such a surmise that if she took another flight she would expect the same - they have to go under your seat
and yes agree any dog much bigger than a small JRT yorkie or a chihuahua is too much to go in a bag in the cabin - so only tiny dogs yes- and it's not uncommon in EU or the states for small dogs in the cabin as I have shown
and as for allergies - oh come on - what do you do in a train pub or a cafe or at a pals - tell the folks with dogs to leave? - what nonsense
so do you cross the road each time if you see a dog coming?
that's taking it all abit far like the onboard bloody peacock -
am very sorry to learn that you have such an extreme allergy of dogs but if you travel on public transport or go out socially then frankly the risk assessment is for you to address surely?
the onus is not on others
Last edited by rog747; 14th Mar 2018 at 13:46.
I don't condone the placing of the dog in the overhead locker.
However an aircraft is a confined area where food is served.
I do not want to have to eat a meal next to a passenger who has an animal that has defacated under the footwell in the next seat or behind me.
There appears to be issues with snub nosed dogs according to Air France rules.
https://www.airfrance.fr/FR/en/commo...maux-avion.htm
Frankly I would be worried about any animal in the cabin that weighed in at 75kg with container.
However back to the issue of the snub nosed animal dying on this flight.
Lufthansa also have this rule.
https://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Dangerous-Dogs
Avianca has this rule.
see https://www.avianca.com/sv/en/contract-of-carriage.html
However an aircraft is a confined area where food is served.
I do not want to have to eat a meal next to a passenger who has an animal that has defacated under the footwell in the next seat or behind me.
There appears to be issues with snub nosed dogs according to Air France rules.
TRANSPORTING YOUR ANIMAL BY FREIGHT
In certain cases, your pet cannot travel with you in the cabin or in the hold. It must be transported by freight if:
the animal and its container weigh more than 75 kg / 165 lb,
it is traveling to a country that authorizes animal transport only by freight.
Snub-nosed dogs and cats, such as pugs, bulldogs, boxers, Shih Tzus and Persian or Burmese cats, are permitted for transport by freight on flights provided by Air France.
In certain cases, your pet cannot travel with you in the cabin or in the hold. It must be transported by freight if:
the animal and its container weigh more than 75 kg / 165 lb,
it is traveling to a country that authorizes animal transport only by freight.
Snub-nosed dogs and cats, such as pugs, bulldogs, boxers, Shih Tzus and Persian or Burmese cats, are permitted for transport by freight on flights provided by Air France.
Frankly I would be worried about any animal in the cabin that weighed in at 75kg with container.
However back to the issue of the snub nosed animal dying on this flight.
Lufthansa also have this rule.
Information about travelling with snub-nosed dogs and cats
Dogs and cats belonging to snub-nosed breeds have anatomically restricted airways with the accompanying difficulty in breathing. The stress caused by transportation and/or high temperatures at the departure, transfer and destination airports can cause circulatory issues that may result in breathing problems. Your pet could suffer serious health problems or even die during the journey.
Dogs and cats belonging to snub-nosed breeds have anatomically restricted airways with the accompanying difficulty in breathing. The stress caused by transportation and/or high temperatures at the departure, transfer and destination airports can cause circulatory issues that may result in breathing problems. Your pet could suffer serious health problems or even die during the journey.
Avianca has this rule.
Brachiocephalic Breeds. Some breeds of dogs and cats have a series of anatomical idiosyncrasies that make it difficult for them to breathe properly; the condition is called Brachiocephalic Respiratory Syndrome. These pets have a flat nose and tend to present respiratory problems, making them susceptible to suffering hot flashes and breathing disorders when exposed to extreme temperature changes or stressful situations. Therefore, in order to protect these pets, THE CARRIER prohibits the carriage of the following breeds of dogs and cats or of breeds resulting from crossing them (that is to say, one of the pet’s parents belongs to one of the breeds below):
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 14th Mar 2018 at 14:20.
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The lack of empathy for a dead familiy pet on this thread is shocking and disturbing. No wonder the dog died if this is the prevailing attitude to pets on aircraft among those who work in the industry. Will be posting a link to this thread on as many social media and news sites as I can in order that the general public can see what an animal hating bunch the airline industry seems to be.
