Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Near miss near Mumbai

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Near miss near Mumbai

Reply

Old 13th Feb 2018, 00:15
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,815
Near miss near Mumbai

https://www.rt.com/news/418599-india...llision-pilot/
rotornut is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 01:21
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 4,270
Women at the controls on a collision course, a neo with both engines working (they were CFM's ):

Near miss: How AI’s woman pilot saved lives of 261 flyers

Saurabh Sinha | TNN | Updated: Feb 12, 2018, 14:22 IST

NEW DELHI: Air traffic controllers handling the Vistara and Air India flights that came dangerously close in Mumbai airspace+ last Wednesday (Febraury 7) have been suspended. Investigators are probing if in those tense seconds — when the two planes with 261 passengers on them — had to be pulled apart, there was some confusion in the controller's coordination with the two cockpits which were both manned by women at that time.

AI's Airbus A-319 was enroute from Mumbai to Bhopal as AI 631 and Vistara's A-320 Neo was flying from Delhi to Pune as UK 997. "The planes were barely seconds away from each other. Vistara was descending from its assigned level of 29,000 feet to 27,100 feet where an AI flight was coming in the opposite direction.

There may have been confusion between the ATC and Vistara cockpit — which at that time had a woman co-pilot at the controls and the captain had taken a toilet break.

The AI flight had a woman commander, Captain Anupama Kohli. Maybe there was a mix-up in communication in those tense seconds like what altitude instruction is being given to which lady. This has to be seen," said sources.

Amid this confusion, AI's Captain Anupama Kohli — a senior commander of A-320 family with experience of over 20 years — saved the day. "She saw the Vistara aircraft approaching in her direction and could hear the ATC asking UK 997 'why are you on this level?' The Vistara lady pilot told ATC that 'no, you told me to come to this level'.

She was monitoring this. Then she saw the Vistara plane closing in from her left side right towards her. The red sign went up in her cockpit and she got to know the Vistara plane was crossing her level 'now'. Instantly, a resolution advisory (RA) came — 'climb, climb, climb." Then as per RA, Captain Kohli immediately climbed and turned right to steer clear of the Vistara plane," said sources.

The Vistara plane at that time was being flown by the lady co-pilot. The male commander had taken a toilet break and as per rules, an Airhostess was in the cockpit as two crew members have to be always present in a cockpit. Luckily AI went up and Vistara came down, to be 600 feet away from each other and then flew away safely "clear of conflict".
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62878010.cms
Airbubba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 02:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 500
which at that time had a woman co-pilot at the controls
The AI flight had a woman commander
The Times of India - still living in the dark ages!
josephfeatherweight is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 02:51
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Near St Lawrence River
Age: 47
Posts: 198
Moments before the mid-air crash could occur, the traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS) sounded an alarm in the Air India jet’s cockpit: “Climb, climb, climb!” Captain Kohli reacted swiftly, climbing and turning right to veer away from Vistara’s A320.

Later, Air India said “something had gone wrong between the Vistara pilot and the ATC as the Vistara aircraft kept descending while the ATC was giving different instructions,” according to local media.
This sounds like "deja vu" of the TU-154 mid-air collision over the southern Germany. We learnt something from that tragedy, follow the TCAS command: Air India "Climb", "Climb", "Climb", then obviously Vistara "Descent", "Descent", "Descent". Both women did well.
Edit:
About Indian Media, I think they should be impartial, maybe the statement of the other commander would be more appealing: Did the shit hit the fan, literally?

Last edited by _Phoenix; 13th Feb 2018 at 03:22.
_Phoenix is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 03:02
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 58
Posts: 15
So this would cause the same confusion if there were two males at the control?
xfsd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 03:48
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Zone of Alienation
Age: 73
Posts: 286
Turn, turn, turn! Said no TCAS, ever.
FIRESYSOK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 05:58
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by josephfeatherweight View Post
The Times of India - still living in the dark ages!
Only relevance to this was where the ATC staff has also been suspended as it seems to be he confused between the 2 crew as he thought he was speaking to the same lady.....

Still dark ages though when the Male ATC cannot be believe there are so many women pilots in his domain of control.
Wannabe Flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 06:18
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 478
So, actually, TCAS saved the day...
golfyankeesierra is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 08:31
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,071
I think the dark ages bit is OTT.

there probably are not that many women pilots in india compared to siome other countries and in a stressful situation for the controller it is a possible human mistake.

It should be used as a refresher training 'be careful' incident rather than us superior white western folks who are never wrong acting all superior in these situations.

If you want ATC confusion for no good reason try 'Kennedy Ground'
pax britanica is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 08:59
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 500
I was referring to the way the incident was reported and written about in the newspaper extract from "The Times of India" - they are living in the Dark Ages - I did not refer to the controller.
josephfeatherweight is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 09:10
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
there probably are not that many women pilots in india compared to siome other countries and in a stressful situation for the controller it is a possible human mistake.
To the contrary. There's probably a higher ratio of women in the cockpits of Indian airliners than is the case in most other countries. To suggest that somehow two female voices is an explanation for confusion on the part of controller is simply ridiculous and manages in a single shot to demean both women and controllers.

There are many things about India I enjoyed, but the quality of its journalism was definitely not one of them. The TOI should be ashamed of itself for publishing an account that makes the gender of the pilots appear to be in any way relevant to whatever errors were made.
ELAC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Feb 2018, 12:39
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: BRS/GVA
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra View Post
So, actually, TCAS saved the day...
No, according to the article it was a miracle, not TCAS
hoss183 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 00:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by ELAC View Post
To the contrary. There's probably a higher ratio of women in the cockpits of Indian airliners than is the case in most other countries. T
According to a Smithsonian article from last year, India has the highest percentage of female commercial pilots in the world
jurassicjockey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 01:52
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Near St Lawrence River
Age: 47
Posts: 198
I look at the speeds and the altitudes in the imagines below, I do not comprehend why a pilot is a hero and the other is punished...

_Phoenix is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 08:22
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 68
Posts: 1,010
I think that the reason is that the pilot of the AIC a/c saw the Vistara a/c at the same level - together with hearing some apparent confusion between ATC & the Vistara pilot as to its cleared level. Whereupon, the AIC pilot complied with her TCAS R/A & took avoiding action. According to Airbubba's post, anyway.
kcockayne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 11:42
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Near St Lawrence River
Age: 47
Posts: 198
According to the last sentence of that post both pilots complied to TCAS:
Luckily (or miraculously ) AI went up and Vistara came down, to be 600 feet away from each other and then flew away safely "clear of conflict".
AI pilot did well by looking for the aircraft that was cleared for the same FL she was passing through, but she could communicate about the possible conflict before that became obvious with TCAS/RA. Once TCAS came on, at least from gif animation above, the separation efforts were about equal (the same delta of speed increase/decrease).
However, I think it is natural to defend the kid that is crying first upon a conflict.
_Phoenix is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 14:54
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 68
Posts: 1,010
Fair enough. Somehow I missed the fact that the Vistara had descended.
kcockayne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:19
  #18 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 71
Posts: 2,644
It seems to me that three components; TCAS and two crews, performed as they are supposed to. Well done. Non-event.
Herod is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 18:44
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,256
Why are women pilots better than men ?

Because they have to be !!
4Greens is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Feb 2018, 19:07
  #20 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 71
Posts: 2,644
I flew with quite a number of women pilots. Almost none of them were what you would call "standard" pilots. Unlike the men, there was no broad spectrum between good and bad. A small number were dreadful, but the vast majority were extremely good. Perhaps, as 4Greens says, because they had to be.
Herod is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service