An-148 missing after takeoff from Moscow

[akaSylvia]

AV Herald seem to be referring to the letter above with this information.

On Feb 22nd 2018 Rosaviatsia recommended based on preliminary findings (without disclosing those findings) to pay attention to following points:
- preparation of aircraft for flight and decision making about conducting a flight with delayed failures and malfunctions in accordance with minimum equipment list requirements
- interaction between crew members, in particular to continue running the relevant checklists after being interrupted or when a checklist section has not been completed (e.g. turn on heating of pitot probes)
- performance of standard operating procedures in standard, non-normal and emergency operation
- crew actions in case of aircraft system failures (flight and navigation systems, control systems)

[SINGAPURCANAC]

a few quetsion from russian report:
Captain had ATPL dated 27.12.2017???? ( svidetelstvo linego pilota)
Copilot had 812 hours TT- ATPL 21.06.2107 . 672 hours on type. since when? since june 2017, or he flew commercially without ATPL licence??? and final one 812-672= 140 Hours .
How is the possible to obtain CPL with 140 hours ( SE, Time building, IFR,ME ) and immediately after that ,without single additional hour to cockpit with 70 passengers?
How, please enlighten us.

[Kulverstukas]

Cpt has just going through med check (it was his first flight after). FO is ex cabin crew, graduated Chelavia private flight school - yes, 140hr at Tecnam P2002 and P2006 and then 672 on type.

And last rumor from "sources who listened to CVR" - it was Cpt who take control and doesn't listen to FO which disagreed with his course of action and suggested right things, unfortunately in vain.

[HowardB]

I was thinking about this and the Air France A330 that crashed in the South Atlantic tragic loss of control due to instrumentation issues, while I was reading an article in Defense News about the F18 crew who recovered their plane after suffering from a major A/C problem that caused their cockpit & instruments to ice over. It is reported that they were able to recover the plane because they had a Garmin watch which provided basic speed and altitude information.

As a card carrying member of the SLF there does appear to be some logic to having a completely separate system available when all else fails.

[twochai]

You are absolutely right, of course, and every FAR25 (or equivalent) aircraft is required to have a totally separate and independent source and displays of aircraft attitude, altitude and airspeed. But in a genuine upset situation such as this it's easy for panic to develop and for the pilot(s) to become confused with what is really happening.

Training and vigilance is required in such situations to maintain situational awareness.

[gums]

@ Howard and Two......

With the FBW flight controls on these newer planes, there's a lot more than you may understand regarding backup systems and displays.

I also wanna see the report Howard mentioned regarding the F-18 saved with a wristwatch. My handy iPhone GPS app shows groundtrack and speed and such, but I am more interested in speed thru the air molecules. 'course, that iPhone navigation stuff could come in handy if it could update from cell towers of maybe a satellite.

[Kulverstukas]

Originally Posted by DingerX

I would not expect an An-148 driver to need to wear such a watch.

They definitely need not. Except unreliable air speed data (we don't know what FO pitot measured but let's suggest it was zero too) they has ground speed, altitude, AoA, engine params, ground position etc...

Moreover, from first warning till ground impact there was solid 4 minutes of flight and at least 3 minutes of controlled flight.

[gearlever]

@Kulverstuk

I always appreciate your comments.

BTW, what would have happened keeping the AP ON and maintaining eng power?

[Kulverstukas]

@gearlever, keeping the AP on with unreliable airspeed is against SOP, so we can only speculate.

[FullWings]

Having done unreliable airspeed in depth in the sim last week, there can be quite a bit of “startle” when it comes to diagnosing the problem, depending on what/where but as I’m on a Boeing, once you have made the decision and done the recall items, it then becomes more of a management issue rather than OMG we’re going to die.

It would be interesting to know what Antonov state in their QRH/FCTM about UAS events and the procedures to be used...?

[IcePack]

Funny how difficult today’s crews find flying. Back in the day the sim session would often include no airspeed or compass information (E2b available) All came down to flight deck management (crm not invented) have the pm act as a talking autopilot e.g roll wings level now, set body angle to, thrust set, etc. Of course this assumed both of you had been taught to fly the jet properly in the first place. (Handling the big jets a good start) yes I know back in the day etc but doing an initial IR using a Relitive Bearing Indicator certainly made sure you could think & fly. Weeded out those that couldn’t.
Then Airbus & Boeing decided to dum down flying to automatic everything & so no more pilots just system operators. Classic own goal which has lead to too many deaths despite over all a reduction in the accident rate.

[ATC Watcher]

From a Controller point of view, I had many moons ago the "chance" the have an African registered DC8 on the frequency that did experiment a total electrical failure ( pre-RAT days) and requesting assistance , the old trained phraseology came handy : : start turn left now , stop turn now. " calculate distance vs altitude and say "start descent now 500ft/min" , etc.., the guys were completely lost over a foreign country (for them) in IMC. A GPS would have come handy but we got them down safely after finding a VMC open suitable airport below (was not that easy ), and all this using an old 6 RPM long range primary radar ( update every 10 seconds.) of course with no mode C altitude reporting.
I wonder how many controllers and pilots are trained today on this.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Classic own goal which has lead to too many deaths despite over all a reduction in the accident rate."

That's a dumb statement - you forget all the accidents avoided by modern technology - hence the decrease in accident rates even as the amount of flights has shot up........

[aterpster]

In particular TCAS and EGPWS.

[SLFinAZ]

I don't think it's "dumb" at all. While there is no question that advances in technology have made commercial aviation (in particular) safer overall the simple truth is that the human (read corporate) response to those advances has led to the degradation of many pilots ability to function as an aviator vs. as a systems manager.

So while over all safety is certainly better the percentage of accidents directly attributable to insufficient aviating skills has risen alarmingly.

Flying a complex plane under stress and in a degraded condition is a perishable skill, this is compounded when a systemic discouragement of hand flying skills is culturally institutionalized across the industry resulting in confusing button pushing and knob turning with actually "flying"...

[notfred]

Originally Posted by IcePack

Funny how difficult today’s crews find flying. Back in the day the sim session would often include no airspeed or compass information (E2b available)

No airspeed available is very different from recognising that you have one available but it is wrong.

[alfaman]

Originally Posted by SLFinAZ

So while over all safety is certainly better the percentage of accidents directly attributable to insufficient aviating skills has risen alarmingly.

That could just as easily be attributed to the improvements in design & engineering, & a reduction in maintenance issues, though. Lies, damn lies & statistics etc.

[Chronus]

Kulverstukas apologies if you have already posted it, but do you happen to have the METAR for the t/o time. I am wondering, if it was pitot icing, then how come they iced up in less than 4 minutes. A particular type of ice crystal known as graupel is about all that I can think of to have clogged up the tubes so quickly.

[gearlever]

Metars:
UUDD 111330Z 14006MPS 4000 -SHSN BKN007 BKN030CB M05/M07 Q1019 R14R///99// R14L/590392 TEMPO 1200 SHSN
UUDD 111300Z 14006MPS 9999 -SN BKN007 M05/M07 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 TEMPO 1200 SHSN BKN012CB
UUDD 111230Z 13005MPS 8000 -SHSN FEW008 BKN026CB M05/M07 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L///99// TEMPO 1200 SHSN
UUDD 111200Z 13005MPS 1900 R14R/2000D R14L/1900D SN SCT007 OVC026 M05/M06 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590491 TEMPO 1200 SHSN BKN012CB
UUDD 111130Z 13006MPS 2100 -SN SCT008 OVC026 M05/M06 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 TEMPO 1200 SHSN BKN012CB
UUDD 111100Z 14006MPS 1800 R14R/1900U R14L/1800U SHSN BKN007 BKN026CB M05/M06 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 NOSIG
UUDD 111000Z 14005MPS 8000 -SN BKN009 M05/M07 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 TEMPO 1000 SHSN BKN012CB
UUDD 110930Z 14006MPS 9999 SCT009 BKN036 M05/M06 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 TEMPO 1000 SHSN BKN012CB
UUDD 110900Z 15006MPS 9999 BKN020CB M05/M06 Q1019 R14R/590293 R14L/590392 NOSIG
UUDD 110830Z 13005MPS 5000 -SN SCT007 M05/M06 Q1020 R14R///99// R14L/590392 TEMPO 0700 +SHSN BKN010CB
UUDD 110730Z 14005MPS 2600 -SN SCT008 OVC030 M05/M07 Q1020 RESN R88/590392 TEMPO 1000 SHSN BKN015CB
UUDD 110700Z 14005MPS 1400 1000NE R14R/1400N R14L/1100D SHSN SCT006 BKN026CB M05/M07 Q1020 R14R/590392 R14L///99// TEMPO 1000 SHSN

Crash: Saratov A148 at Moscow on Feb 11th 2018, lost height after departure, pitot heatings off

[Espada III]

If a bus driver can follow her training when everything goes t**s up, and simply releases the brake, to let equilibrium regain control, why can't a pilot simply let go of the sidestick, and use pitch/power when the pitot gets iced??

Near-miss bus driver: 'My training kicked in' - BBC News