Frohnsdorff Runs Amok (merged)
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Upperecam, I'm not sure you understand what is going on. JF has declined to take up the new position. A core group of NEC members, of whom one is MG, another JF, will run the procedure for appointing a successor (as JF always promised). Sit back, relax, watch industrial democracy in action, then help kick ass when the time comes. You really have the wrong idea. But then in this Forum, who knows WHO YOU really are? You and pom are not some amateur attempts at agent provocateurs are you? Whatever was pom thinking with the bizarre title of this thread? Methinks you two are working to some peculiar agenda- intelligent people cannot honestly jump to the conclusions you have!
Last edited by Notso Fantastic; 3rd Jul 2002 at 20:26.
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I had enough experience of Student Union politics to know that
1: a body will die if the head is removed
2: 1970's style knee jerk strikes (or threats to strike) generally have the effect of getting people's backs up and as a result make managers more likely to dig their heels in.
3: I would rather work for bad pay/conditions in the job that I love than have a part in bringing down the people that provide me that job and end up stacking shelves again.
However the deed is done and JF has had his 15 minutes. Lets see what he actually does before we lynch him shall we?
1: a body will die if the head is removed
2: 1970's style knee jerk strikes (or threats to strike) generally have the effect of getting people's backs up and as a result make managers more likely to dig their heels in.
3: I would rather work for bad pay/conditions in the job that I love than have a part in bringing down the people that provide me that job and end up stacking shelves again.
However the deed is done and JF has had his 15 minutes. Lets see what he actually does before we lynch him shall we?
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I would rather work for bad pay/conditions in the job that I love than have a part in bringing down the people that provide me that job and end up stacking shelves again.
Please; The next time use a few commas and stop this nonsense about shelf stacking. If BA left a big hole here at LHR there'd be plenty of opportunities for pilots, just not so many for Manager - Bread Rolls - Europe
SORRY FOR THE THREAD CREEP EVERYONE ELSE - ANYWAY WHAT DOES AMOK MEAN? IS IT AN ALTERNATIVE TO BALPA?
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Dirty Mach, perhaps you and commie ex-GS CD can go set up a Free-for-All Airline that carries students and backpackers that can travel for free, wherever they want to go. It can be funded by the Pilots and other employees stacking shelves in the evening on their time off.
Get Real. You can do a job that you enjoy and earn a good income commensurate with the level of responsibility the job entails. I suppose I'll have to explain to you why your job is considered a job of responsibility, Hint.......why do we carry a black box.........in case an ex-shelf-stacker who never understood the level of responsibilty a Pilot has, complacently crashes and kills hundreds of innocent people.
Can someone please set up a Forum for "verified Pilots only", the wind up merchants and Tesco-employees are having a field day.
Get Real. You can do a job that you enjoy and earn a good income commensurate with the level of responsibility the job entails. I suppose I'll have to explain to you why your job is considered a job of responsibility, Hint.......why do we carry a black box.........in case an ex-shelf-stacker who never understood the level of responsibilty a Pilot has, complacently crashes and kills hundreds of innocent people.
Can someone please set up a Forum for "verified Pilots only", the wind up merchants and Tesco-employees are having a field day.
Thread Starter
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Accurate information about the "selection committee":
To All Company Council Chairman and NEC Members.
The NEC has setup a small commitee to create an updated and fully inclusive job specification for the position of General Secretary. This group consists of the following NEC members: Mervyn Granshaw (BALPA Chairman), John Frohnsdorff, Dave Boys and Mike Delboy.
The task of this group is to gather feedback back from all Company Council Chairman and NEC members as to what qualities and responsibilities the General Secretary position should include. The group will be responsible for co-ordinating and collating all the feedback received and reporting back to the NEC in a short time scale.
To All Company Council Chairman and NEC Members.
The NEC has setup a small commitee to create an updated and fully inclusive job specification for the position of General Secretary. This group consists of the following NEC members: Mervyn Granshaw (BALPA Chairman), John Frohnsdorff, Dave Boys and Mike Delboy.
The task of this group is to gather feedback back from all Company Council Chairman and NEC members as to what qualities and responsibilities the General Secretary position should include. The group will be responsible for co-ordinating and collating all the feedback received and reporting back to the NEC in a short time scale.
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....erm.......'scuse me...?
There's a lot of talk here about 'appointing' a new GS. Whilst I applaud JF for getting rid of the previous incumbent, doesn't there have to be some sort of consultation of the membership first? Or is that only if there's more than one candidate?
There's a lot of talk here about 'appointing' a new GS. Whilst I applaud JF for getting rid of the previous incumbent, doesn't there have to be some sort of consultation of the membership first? Or is that only if there's more than one candidate?
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AMOK = Association of Moaning Old Kodgers, usually found in Lot Stock & Barrel bemoaning the newcomers spoiling it for all with Maestro, loss of Box D, loss of EZE to the triple etc etc.
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Why can't JF retain his elected status as the victorious candidate whilst seeking a new full time GS and at this point endorse a new appointee, if any ballot is required to confirm a new cadidate? Here's a great scenario. CD applies for the vacant post, no other candidates apply, or a trojan horse stands, (MG or POM?) and CD is back with NEC approval.
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The time to judge the efficacy of recent events will be in about a year's time; when the new GS has had time to make his presence felt.
Of one thing I am sure... Things can only be better than they have been for the last ten years.
Of one thing I am sure... Things can only be better than they have been for the last ten years.
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So far as I can see so far JF has been true to his word and his actions have been inline with his manifesto , I did not vote for him and I think that he may be taking the union in the wrong direction but he is undoubtedly a man of integrity.
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Upperecam, Boy have you got the wrong end of the stick! How can a serving GS actively seek a new GS? He would be very smartly put down by the membership! He has to resign to kick off the selection process. We had to get the incumbent out. That done, JF does not want the job. He has resigned the position, and in the meantime, so someone is at the controls, 4 NEC members are steering the ship and supervising the selection process. MG is NOT THE NEW GS! Trumpet it loud and clear. I assume one or more candidates will step forward. If more than one, the membership will be presented with their manifestos for an informed choice. It is called Industrial Democracy in action! Simple, really.....isn't it? Are you and pom with it now? I can get large Fisher-Price letters magnetic letters and put them on a nice big blackboard and spell it out slowly...........
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I have fully supported and still do the stand taken by JF and any intelligent and educated individual fluent in English just might have worked this out.
My CC web site states that MG is now Acting GS and as such overseeing and minding the shop. Now I am not versed in union law or BALPA regs. I choose to pay my subs and vote for issues as I see fit. However I was saddened to see what I perceive to be a smug and gloating post from Pom, coupled with the info from our web site that to poor old me, seemed to indicate a putsch. I am very aware that CD had the complete backing of every CC and the NEC. So with egg all over their faces they are out for revenge methinks.
I for one would have liked JF to notify his intention to stand down on the appointment of a full time successor. I still don't understand why this is a problem. I would also have liked to see JF receive remuneration for all his hard work. Say one months of CD's enormous pay!!!!!!!
My CC web site states that MG is now Acting GS and as such overseeing and minding the shop. Now I am not versed in union law or BALPA regs. I choose to pay my subs and vote for issues as I see fit. However I was saddened to see what I perceive to be a smug and gloating post from Pom, coupled with the info from our web site that to poor old me, seemed to indicate a putsch. I am very aware that CD had the complete backing of every CC and the NEC. So with egg all over their faces they are out for revenge methinks.
I for one would have liked JF to notify his intention to stand down on the appointment of a full time successor. I still don't understand why this is a problem. I would also have liked to see JF receive remuneration for all his hard work. Say one months of CD's enormous pay!!!!!!!
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I'm sure Pom is very sore, don't know why though, his outfit (or should I say its members) were well and truly stitched up by DC and co. Obviously looking at BALPA becoming BA's tool again.
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As atated, JF has not taken up the offer of being Gen Sec, which incidentally would have required him to resign from BA, if not by BA, then by BALPA as part of the standard terms and conditions of the employment of a Gen Sec, to ensure impartiality of action by any Gen Sec I suppose.
JF has now done te right thing and we can move on. As to the idea of having a pilot at the head of staff (the Gen Sec) , bera i mind you have a whole host of pilots at the top YOU elected them as CC s etc. A pilot as Gen Sec, well, ask youself this.
You have a haemmoriod proble, do you :-
a) go to a surgeon who is brilliant in his field also has PPL and can chat with you about flying whilts doing your interal exam or
b) Find a pilot witha first aid certificate who can chat knowledgeably about flying but is a bit unsue about your plumbing !
JF realised more than others here perhaps that the job is not flying 'planes or just being a jolly nice fellow and offering things to people which someone is going to have to pay for , as Pom mentioned. As an NEC member he is involved in the search for a Gen Sec, who has to be an industrial relations specialist, we already have enough pilots in BALPA !
TTF
Martin A
p.s. Can we try and keep a tone of reason, some times some of this gets to look like the worst of animal farm and mob rule with hopes that the loudest is right. We can do better and we should some reading this will make their judgemenst about pilots from it, so let us rise to the challenge !
JF has now done te right thing and we can move on. As to the idea of having a pilot at the head of staff (the Gen Sec) , bera i mind you have a whole host of pilots at the top YOU elected them as CC s etc. A pilot as Gen Sec, well, ask youself this.
You have a haemmoriod proble, do you :-
a) go to a surgeon who is brilliant in his field also has PPL and can chat with you about flying whilts doing your interal exam or
b) Find a pilot witha first aid certificate who can chat knowledgeably about flying but is a bit unsue about your plumbing !
JF realised more than others here perhaps that the job is not flying 'planes or just being a jolly nice fellow and offering things to people which someone is going to have to pay for , as Pom mentioned. As an NEC member he is involved in the search for a Gen Sec, who has to be an industrial relations specialist, we already have enough pilots in BALPA !
TTF
Martin A
p.s. Can we try and keep a tone of reason, some times some of this gets to look like the worst of animal farm and mob rule with hopes that the loudest is right. We can do better and we should some reading this will make their judgemenst about pilots from it, so let us rise to the challenge !
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Notsofantastic, I think you are right!
For others please do read the boring old rules before launching off at those who have. As I nhave siad before, we change rules at our peril if we change them for unique circumstances. I think none of us would want rules that gave one member of te NEC such powers as to become the "generalissimo" or the "fuherer" would we ?
Change should happen after reasoned argument. As to massive pay, well some confused cost of running Gen Sec with pay, not badly paid, but then as we always say, if you pay peanuts ..... Please don't expect to get the next one on the cheap, it is not worth it !
JF is doing exactly what he siad he would do, to do otherwise would have mean't him taking a financial hit that few of us could have contemplated, let alone the fact that he had said he only wanted to depose the incumbent. Having done that, he has resigned and now the NEC search for a candidate or two. Whether they find two who knows, but say they did, both met the minumum required, but one was brilliant, the other just OK. How exactly would the membership know the sublety in a mere election address ? Might be hard to do. You either have to trust the guys YOU elect or you don't. if you don't then find someone you can trust who will publicly lay their reputation on the line, which is not the same as writing here under an assumed name for sure !
TTFN
Martin A
For others please do read the boring old rules before launching off at those who have. As I nhave siad before, we change rules at our peril if we change them for unique circumstances. I think none of us would want rules that gave one member of te NEC such powers as to become the "generalissimo" or the "fuherer" would we ?
Change should happen after reasoned argument. As to massive pay, well some confused cost of running Gen Sec with pay, not badly paid, but then as we always say, if you pay peanuts ..... Please don't expect to get the next one on the cheap, it is not worth it !
JF is doing exactly what he siad he would do, to do otherwise would have mean't him taking a financial hit that few of us could have contemplated, let alone the fact that he had said he only wanted to depose the incumbent. Having done that, he has resigned and now the NEC search for a candidate or two. Whether they find two who knows, but say they did, both met the minumum required, but one was brilliant, the other just OK. How exactly would the membership know the sublety in a mere election address ? Might be hard to do. You either have to trust the guys YOU elect or you don't. if you don't then find someone you can trust who will publicly lay their reputation on the line, which is not the same as writing here under an assumed name for sure !
TTFN
Martin A
