Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800 TC-CPF overrun runway at Trabzon. All pax okay

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800 TC-CPF overrun runway at Trabzon. All pax okay

Old 15th Jan 2018, 13:40
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 611
If it is uncommanded thrust without lever movement this is a real headache for CFM and Boeing. I say without lever movement as the crew could just close the thrust lever and the problems gone. Normally EEC faults or HMU faults do not give this type of result, lets see what the black box says...
Avenger is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 14:16
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,509
If it is uncommanded thrust without lever movement this is a real headache for CFM and Boeing.

Lots of ifs so far. They've got the crew, all the digi boxes and a reasonably intact a/c. It shouldn't take a Sherlock.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 14:32
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 73
Posts: 614
Jet that shot off Trabzon Airport runway 'had power surge' | Daily Mail Online
Airclues is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 14:34
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Istanbul
Age: 69
Posts: 7
Two telescopic cranes seen in the picture were used to remove the cabin baggage.
The airport authority awaits a heavy-lifting crane to remove the plane, and constructing a stable platform for such a crane is underway.
Please see the NTV news channel for the pictures <ntv.com.tr>
esenuslu is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 14:48
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: BRS/GVA
Posts: 332
It funny how 'mysterious' gets used when the involved describe an accident. As several people have speculated, its going to be one of:
a) Deselection of TR before N1 low enough and asymmetric TR stowing
b) No2 TR was INOP and power was put on No2 for some reason, as per above theories
c) PF was using asymmetric thrust to turn and pushed the wrong lever

I'll put money its not a completely uncommanded power-up.
hoss183 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 15:02
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 12,299
Nothing new there, appears to be just a rehash of the same AFP-sourced article linked in post #100, suitably dumbed-down for Daily Mail readers.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 17:36
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nearer home than before!
Posts: 473
Just to put a few theories to bed. 1. Captain only steering on almost all 737s. You go left because you can see the edge better and judge it. Simples.

Steering. I've had a couple of big birds in the nose gear and the cables and NWS still worked.

It is easy (especially for crew who've flown non Boeings before to inadvertently push TOGA when you want to disconnect the autothrottle. Happened countless times before over the years and will again. If you do it, a quick expletive and then press the disconnect before thrust rises and it's not a safety issue. Pulling back the levers and not disconnecting is another matter....
RVF750 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 17:59
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 1,219
and physically hold both of them closed against the servos all the way to the flare; then hold them closed all the way down the runway until releasing just one of them prior to the excursion?
Mikehotel152 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 19:31
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 65
Posts: 2,987
There have been a few excursions in the past where the pilot inadvertently advanced one throttle in forward while working the reverse levers on the other engines - although these have been on four engine aircraft, not twins (at least the ones I'm familiar with).
But it's at least a possibility that if the pilot didn't pull the reverser lever on the deactivated right engine, they inadvertently advanced the forward thrust lever on the right when de-selecting the left reverse lever.
A totally uncommanded thrust advance (Uncontrollable High Thrust or UHT in the lingo) is extremely rare on FADEC engines (something like 1/100,000,000 per engine flight hour), but it has been known to happen. It was more common with the pre-FADEC cable engines - usually due to a broken throttle cable...
tdracer is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 19:33
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,509
They appear to be so far down the runway that we must assume the TR's had been deployed. If so, that is a not starter for cause. They must have been at a slow taxi speed by this point, so I suspect asymmetric reverse thrust would not cause this. Broken nose wheel steering might give an idea, but at slow speed the brakes should stop it PDQ, but startle WTF factor would delay size 12's entering the equation.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 19:42
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 32
TDRACER, looks like it did happen on a twin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Airlines_Flight_3054
747-8driver is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 19:57
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,586
That wasn’t uncommanded.. they never closed one of the thrust levers
EGPFlyer is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 20:07
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe, Africa
Posts: 78
In the company I fly for as a Captain on the 737NG 7/800 we had an aircraft which would not reduce thrust below +/- 60% when starting descent. It would show retard and the thrustlever would move to the idle position but the N1 would not reduce below 60% on one engine. It took a couple of manual thrust applications and retards to get the thrust to decrease to idle. It was a real headache for maintenance because it was initially verry intermittent and not obvious until you had a good look at it.
D-OCHO is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 20:55
  #114 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 73
Posts: 3,342
There is a lot of talk here about one TR being inop and locked. I can't find the original mention of this in the thread. Can anyone point me to it please? Or is everyone following the herd?
Herod is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 21:04
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bristol
Age: 74
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Herod View Post
There is a lot of talk here about one TR being inop and locked.
It's not TR related issue, as too far down the runway at taxi speed.
BillSouth is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 21:16
  #116 (permalink)  
Gender Faculty Specialist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Stop being so stupid, it's my turn
Posts: 1,718
Herod, I heard it from a friend who works there. It is definitive. Sorry canít link to someoneís head
Chesty Morgan is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 21:22
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Flanders
Posts: 28
I managed to get a tiny stone stuck in the nose wheel steering cable pulley on a 757 that got stuck in a hard left turn just south of the tower (Romeo one?) at Gatwick a few years ago. The stone, perhaps 1/4 inch diameter had been dragged into the pulley and was holding the cable fast.
The Skipper suddenly bent double and made some deep grunting noises as he tried to turn the handle. I thought he was having a heart attack so I shouted that I was taking control and stuck the brakes on. Broad daylight but still plenty of confusion.

I wonder if the same thing happened here?
Tom Cundall is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 22:56
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 611
Initial investigations seem to find the aircraft could not maintain the centre line, drifted to the left and the left gear entered the soft ground and collapsed resulting in a sharp yaw to the left, apparently compounded by right engine power. Prior to touchdown there is suggestion the the FO was pf and elected to GA, pressed TOGA but Captain took control and landed. Maybe asymmetric reverse, but looking at the pictures it is closed, which suggests any asymmetric reverse was cancelled prior to the skid, apparently most of the investigation is complete, which suggests the causes have been positively identified. Just for info, the LD with AB3 F30 1874 AB2 F30 2417 with one reverser inoperative, or 2197 AB2, 1708 AB3 same condition. If the aircraft touched down deep this may explain why they are close to the end at the time of the incident. The waters are really getting muddy!

Last edited by Avenger; 16th Jan 2018 at 06:38. Reason: info
Avenger is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2018, 23:08
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Isla Grande
Posts: 951
The Flap Lever on 737 is very close to throttle #2.
After Landing Items: Selecting the flap lever up and striking throttle #2 unintentionally ?
gearlever is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2018, 03:40
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 789
Incident may have similarities with these -
747-8driver mentioned one of them.

Both fly by wire Airbusses, twins with one thrust reverser known to be inoperable and an elevated thrust after touchdown from the non-reversed engine.

[1]
March 22, 1998
Airbus A320-214
Fatalities 3 on ground

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip...nes_Flight_137
http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ...olodReport.pdf

"condition of the aircraft immediately upon touch down with No. 1 engine reverse inoperative, thereby causing an adverse flight condition of extreme differential power application during the landing roll resulting in runway excursion and finally an overshoot"

"3) Review the Airbus A320 flight technique for landing with one engine reverse inoperative, amend/revise as necessary;"

[2]
July 17, 2007
Airbus A320-233
Fatalities 199 (all 187 on board; 12 on the ground)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Airlines_Flight_3054
https://web.archive.org/web/20110706...df/3054ing.pdf
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4m6hr1 -- Mayday _ Air Crash Investigation S11E01 - Deadly Reputation (TAM Airlines Flight 3054)

"The deactivated thrust reverser on the number 2 engine was confirmed"

"the flight computer recorded the left thrust lever being retarded to the rear-most position, activating the thrust reverser on the left engine, while the right thrust lever (controlling the engine with the disabled thrust reverser) remained in the CL position."

"As a matter of fact, there are various reports of errors in the execution of the pinned
reverser landing procedures, and these incidents are not restricted to the aircraft of this
manufacturer. It is a problem that occurs throughout the aircraft industry. "
jimjim1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.