Pegasus Airlines Boeing 737-800 TC-CPF overrun runway at Trabzon. All pax okay

[Centaurus]

Turkish Training Captain, talking through the actions and achieving the same result, off the side at slow speed

Talking to a F/O the other day who flies the A330 for same airline. (I think) The Middle Eastern airline he works for has a no manual flying policy meaning full automatics down to 300 ft even on visual approaches. On one occasion the PF in the RH seat was on the visual approach to an ILS runway and coupled.

At 1000 ft he disengaged the AP in order to continue to fly the approach manually. The captain immediately remonstrated with him and re-engaged the AP by now the aircraft was at 800 ft on short final. A few seconds later he allowed the PF to disengage the AP at 300 ft so he could land manually.
All this shenanigans below 1000 ft in clear weather simply to meet a ridiculous SOP against manual flight. Common sense goes right out of the window with some of these operators

[Capn Bloggs]

Nifty timelapse of the recovery here:

Pegasus Airlines plane recovered from Turkey airport cliff edge using crane - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[Avenger]

Is this the case ? I understood the FO mistakenly pushed the TOGA Pb instead of disengaging the A/T (commom error) and the CP took over quickly but forgot to disengage the A/T.

Nope, FO wanted to Go Around due lack of required visual ref bye Captain decided to take over and land.. there is a big difference. If you simply disconnect the AP and hold the thrust levers closed against the servos and land deep and hard....the rest is history.

Talking to a F/O the other day who flies the A330 for same airline.

They don't have 330.
Coupled approaches are limited to 3.25 degree glide and Trabzon is more than this so its not possible.
There are no SOPS preventing manual flight but on a heavy it is not advised to disengage the automatics too early, on the other and the loss of manual flying skills are well documented.
Doubt we will ever get to the bottom of this incident

[misd-agin]

“but on a heavy it is not advised to disengage the automatics too early, ”

Do ‘ heavy’ aircraft fly strangely different than regular airliners if the autothrottles, or other automatics, are disconnected ‘too’ early?

And where is ‘too early’?

[RAT 5]

Does that mean they ground the a/c if AP's are u/s? Do they land at 'nearest suitable' if the AP fails in flight? Don't say it can't because a friend of mine could not engage AP on A340 from LHR to Mauritius. They took it in turns to fly and arrived on time in the sunshine. My mate was old school.

[BraceBrace]

In a world where we are facing harder and harder battles to protect us from the "office" people because ... our job "ever changing dynamic environment" is pretty hard to explain (nothing against them), it is pretty impressive to see how we are pretty easy in doing the same thing as office people if we're not in the same company/country.

We are all a result of our training.

[Cough]

Too early is before you exit RVSM levels....

[sleeper]

I flew "heavies" the last 12 years before retirement and usually flew manual, autothrust off, below 10000 feet. No big deal unless offcourse you never do this.

[donotdespisethesnake]

According to Turkish media, the recovery was completed by 0215 local time and awaiting decision by owners on further movement of the aircraft.

[Hotel Tango]

The damage looks quite extensive. However, the air frame is relatively young. TC-CPF first flight was 30/Nov/12. I'm interested to see if the insurers write it off or go for a repair option.

[West Coast]

From the time lapse video...

Presuming the runway closed for the operation? Odd that the runway lights were illuminated if so.

[Intrance]

Originally Posted by Cough

Too early is before you exit RVSM levels....

RVSM requires only for the equipment to be there, certified and functional, not engaged IIRC .

[cats_five]

Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs

Nifty timelapse of the recovery here:

Pegasus Airlines plane recovered from Turkey airport cliff edge using crane - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It looks like a toy when it was hanging nose down.

[lansen]

Originally Posted by sonicbum

Is this the case ? I understood the FO mistakenly pushed the TOGA Pb instead of disengaging the A/T (commom error) and the CP took over quickly but forgot to disengage the A/T.

Pressing either of the TOGA buttons instead of disengaging the autothrottle is certainly not a common mistake in the 737. You either have to be retarded, completely unqualified or maybe have a live seizure to mistake/accidently push the wrong one of those buttons .

[donotdespisethesnake]

Port side less damaged, I believe it was towed using nose wheel, left MLG and a mobile platform supporting damaged s/b wing, but that was not captured by the video.

https://cdn1.ntv.com.tr/gorsel/turkiye/trabzon-havalimani-ucuslara-acildi,x-HJ8utMf0KP5FHeaXqraA.jpg



News site with video showing detail of accident damage and recovery operation. http://www.haber7.com/guncel/haber/2...cuslara-acildi

[172_driver]

Pressing either of the TOGA buttons instead of disengaging the autothrottle is certainly not a common mistake in the 737. You either have to be retarded, completely unqualified or maybe have a live seizure to mistake/accidently push the wrong one of those buttons

Allow me....


I hope you’re just having a bad night... but you have put quite an effort into finding names for those who’ve made the mistake.

What’s your experience level? Towards the low side I’d imagine, as humbleness tend to develope from experience.

[RVF750]

Originally Posted by lansen

Pressing either of the TOGA buttons instead of disengaging the autothrottle is certainly not a common mistake in the 737. You either have to be retarded, completely unqualified or maybe have a live seizure to mistake/accidently push the wrong one of those buttons .

Clearly either you've never flown both a 737 and the myriad of Turboprops that have go around switches where the disconnect buttons are on the 737 or you like insulting people.

I have pressed the wrong one on several occasions, but immediately realised and sorted it. (TOGA instead of disconnect). It happens, not that often but when it does it isn't a problem if the person doing it fixes it.

In this case, I and many others suspect the Captain maybe was not fully in the loop that it had been pressed.

[sonicbum]

Originally Posted by Avenger

Nope, FO wanted to Go Around due lack of required visual ref bye Captain decided to take over and land.. there is a big difference. If you simply disconnect the AP and hold the thrust levers closed against the servos and land deep and hard....the rest is history.

Ok it’s a different story then.

[sonicbum]

Originally Posted by lansen

Pressing either of the TOGA buttons instead of disengaging the autothrottle is certainly not a common mistake in the 737. You either have to be retarded, completely unqualified or maybe have a live seizure to mistake/accidently push the wrong one of those buttons .

Erroneously pushing the toga PB is a commom mistake at cadet level if the hand on the thrust levers is not positioned properly. I have seen it in the Sim a few times with experienced crew as well during turbulent conditions for the same reason stated above. Hand position on the thrust levers is crucial to avoid any inadvertent activation of the push buttons. But lansen don’t worry, You are an astronaut so these discussions are understandably useless for You. If (and it’s a big if) you’re a captain on a 737 and your low hours FO makes this mistake you can always tell him what you wrote in Your post ;-)

[framer]

It happens on a regular basis. The PF is anticipating a go- around, either consciously or sub consciously has finger poised to hit TOGA, gets visual and the cognitive process of switching to a mental model of disconnecting automatics and landing is incomplete. Bingo, TOGA pushed. I have seen it once in ten years so I imagine it happens on a weekly basis globally.