Air France crew detained after passenger complains “not receiving her upgrade”
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It is worth noting that regardless of her family ties and regardless of the fact that she had previously asked for an upgrade. There was an allegation here of quite a serious sexual offence. It appears that the crew were detained as a part of that investigation as was the gentleman seated next to her, in line with Argentinian law. It is quite possible that the French government is not going to take this any further as that would very easily be construed as an act that wou discourage other women from coming forward in the future were they to be or believe to be in the same situation.
True, the lady did make allegations that a sexual offence had happened, but according to at least some sources those allegations were made to the police at the airport after landing, she never raised that particular issue with the crew during the flight.
French report here:
https://www.ladepeche.fr/article/201...48-heures.html
French report here:
https://www.ladepeche.fr/article/201...48-heures.html
It is worth noting that regardless of her family ties and regardless of the fact that she had previously asked for an upgrade. There was an allegation here of quite a serious sexual offence. It appears that the crew were detained as a part of that investigation as was the gentleman seated next to her, in line with Argentinian law. It is quite possible that the French government is not going to take this any further as that would very easily be construed as an act that wou discourage other women from coming forward in the future were they to be or believe to be in the same situation.
Should that "other side" of the story be correct.
Then many of the previous posters are what they claimed the Argentinian court/police system to be.
I actually think that thing like this happen very often but the Captain will back the crew without all the facts at times and the crew are not being that good to some pax - but they hold the power to bet the backing of the Captain on an unruly arrest charge on landing.
This tread seems to prove that theory.
Then many of the previous posters are what they claimed the Argentinian court/police system to be.
I actually think that thing like this happen very often but the Captain will back the crew without all the facts at times and the crew are not being that good to some pax - but they hold the power to bet the backing of the Captain on an unruly arrest charge on landing.
This tread seems to prove that theory.
Well to balance that POV in the very rare instances like this I have heard of the upset passenger is usually pretty instantly off the mark bringing matters to the attention of the crew and the crew have intervened on behalf of an agreived passenger if there have been allegations of misbehaviour.
In this case it appears the lady involved made no complaint to the crew in flight...didn't hit the call bell or head for the galley ....but then walked up to police at the arrival airport (home turf) and only then raised a complaint?
Can you perhaps see why some people are just a bit sceptical, or at least not rushing to assume the lady's version of events is perhaps the whole truth, though it might be?
In this case it appears the lady involved made no complaint to the crew in flight...didn't hit the call bell or head for the galley ....but then walked up to police at the arrival airport (home turf) and only then raised a complaint?
Can you perhaps see why some people are just a bit sceptical, or at least not rushing to assume the lady's version of events is perhaps the whole truth, though it might be?
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Argentina ranks 133rd out of 144 countries for judicial independence
https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...he_rule_of_law
https://www.transparency.org/news/fe...he_rule_of_law
Well to balance that POV in the very rare instances like this I have heard of the upset passenger is usually pretty instantly off the mark bringing matters to the attention of the crew and the crew have intervened on behalf of an agreived passenger if there have been allegations of misbehaviour.
In this case it appears the lady involved made no complaint to the crew in flight...didn't hit the call bell or head for the galley ....but then walked up to police at the arrival airport (home turf) and only then raised a complaint?
Can you perhaps see why some people are just a bit sceptical, or at least not rushing to assume the lady's version of events is perhaps the whole truth, though it might be?
In this case it appears the lady involved made no complaint to the crew in flight...didn't hit the call bell or head for the galley ....but then walked up to police at the arrival airport (home turf) and only then raised a complaint?
Can you perhaps see why some people are just a bit sceptical, or at least not rushing to assume the lady's version of events is perhaps the whole truth, though it might be?
She did complain to the crew and refused to vacate the jump seat for landing and sit next to the guy she had complained about a sexual nature.
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I'm in the camp that doesn't believe a single word this "lady" is saying.
Here in Russia we had an incident several years ago when putin's son in law was involved in road rage with some banker and his bodyguards who really threatened the guy. The banker rots in jail now and all his banks were liquidated.
But even with all the corruption in Russia I can't imagine something even remotely similar to this Argentinian story happening here.
Here in Russia we had an incident several years ago when putin's son in law was involved in road rage with some banker and his bodyguards who really threatened the guy. The banker rots in jail now and all his banks were liquidated.
But even with all the corruption in Russia I can't imagine something even remotely similar to this Argentinian story happening here.
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Oi JumpJumpJump !
Simplicity is the mother of all solutions !
Argentinian law, being good or bad, is a matter of personal opinion, or personal point of view. However, I believe that foreign people have the right to agree, or disagree, with it. If Air France crew does not agree with Argentinian law, than I believe that they have the right to exclude themselves from going to Argentina.
Naturally Aerolineas Argentinas wouldn't get to fly to France, given that the French law is likely to be substantially different from Argentinian law.
Voilá ... Simples !
Simplicity is the mother of all solutions !
in line with Argentinian law
Naturally Aerolineas Argentinas wouldn't get to fly to France, given that the French law is likely to be substantially different from Argentinian law.
Voilá ... Simples !
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I do hope AF continue to fly from Paris to Argentina since we are flying on that precise same route next March. When we get there we will be staying overnight and then flying southwards to join a ship.
It’s all very well posters calling for AF to discontinue this route but the chaos it would cause to pre-booked passengers like us would likely be tremendous.
It’s all very well posters calling for AF to discontinue this route but the chaos it would cause to pre-booked passengers like us would likely be tremendous.
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zerograv
I agree with you, I didn't mean to or give an opinion about whether or not Argentine law or legal process is correct in my opinion or offer any opinion as to where I believe it falls on the spectrum.
I will catergorically state that, whether crew or not, no human being should be subjected to 6 hours in solitary confinement in a space of 1 square metre without access to food, water or knowledge of what is happening.
With regards to the crew being taken from the hotel, given their position, I imagine that a judge would have ruled that they were an immediate flight risk.
I agree with you, I didn't mean to or give an opinion about whether or not Argentine law or legal process is correct in my opinion or offer any opinion as to where I believe it falls on the spectrum.
I will catergorically state that, whether crew or not, no human being should be subjected to 6 hours in solitary confinement in a space of 1 square metre without access to food, water or knowledge of what is happening.
With regards to the crew being taken from the hotel, given their position, I imagine that a judge would have ruled that they were an immediate flight risk.
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A version from Argentina
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt; 16th Nov 2017 at 01:12.
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Thank you for that article Gilles, , shed some different light :
That brings the Flight deck crew in this saga. The original article (in French) was based on a letter from a cabin crew union and makes no mention of the Captain being directly involved. And there is no mention of the incident (yet at least( in the SNPL web site , generally very quick to defend pilots...
the aircraft captain was kept separate, because the victim had accused him of having coerced her (according to her complaint, he would have told her that if she did not sit in her seat again, next to the passenger who had been masturbating, he would have her put in jail once they landed).
The original article (in French) was based on a letter from a cabin crew union and makes no mention of the Captain being directly involved.
As I heard it ( various versions from French sources) only the "Chef de Cabine" was isolated, and like you I have seen or heard nothing yet on the subject from the likes of SNPL....
In really can't imagine any scenario onboard a legacy European carrier, where a male passenger has been masturbating next to a female ditto, who reports same to the crew, and the crew does nothing about it. Sorry, it just doesn't wash.
What we have here is an entitled brat who didn't get an upgrade she felt entitled to. She then runs off to daddy, who's a big shot in a deeply corrupt tin-pot dictatorship masquerading as a democracy, and daddy does what a mafia Don would do: go after whomever offended his little girl. Luckily for him, being a big shot in what is misleading called a legal system, he can have the offenders locked up and 'prosecuted', knowing full well there'll be no consequences for him and his family.
BS, I say. BS.
What we have here is an entitled brat who didn't get an upgrade she felt entitled to. She then runs off to daddy, who's a big shot in a deeply corrupt tin-pot dictatorship masquerading as a democracy, and daddy does what a mafia Don would do: go after whomever offended his little girl. Luckily for him, being a big shot in what is misleading called a legal system, he can have the offenders locked up and 'prosecuted', knowing full well there'll be no consequences for him and his family.
BS, I say. BS.
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Sorry , but the article says : "comandante de a bordo" , which I translate, just like in French , "Commandant de bord" , = Captain. The article also mentions he was separated from the cabin staff.
But if I speak some Spanish , it is not my mother tongue,and I am not Argentinian either, so and maybe someone who is can clarify.
But if I speak some Spanish , it is not my mother tongue,and I am not Argentinian either, so and maybe someone who is can clarify.
In a different context you would be correct, but the article makes clear that a total of 14 members of the crew were detained. They were members of the SNPNC (the French cabin crew union, see the link in my post #3) and there were no pilots included in that number.
