Air Canada non go-around at SFO
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Isnt that a bit short sighted?
There were landings every few minutes for years on the Quiet bridge visual. How many incidents were there with having 28L closed, or at night?
So AC with an aged aircraft, decides they will land on a taxiway full of aircraft. Do you punish the ac crew? It appears that everyone was punished, as visuals are no longer allowed at night? Problem solved?
Another AC aged aircraft decides to ignore tower instructions to GA. The crew has radio and confirms clear to land, and suddenly, cant figure out out to use the radio until on the ground.
How to prevent it from happening again? Add more complexity to a system? How many others have had this problem?
Why do refuse to sanction the crew?
There were landings every few minutes for years on the Quiet bridge visual. How many incidents were there with having 28L closed, or at night?
So AC with an aged aircraft, decides they will land on a taxiway full of aircraft. Do you punish the ac crew? It appears that everyone was punished, as visuals are no longer allowed at night? Problem solved?
Another AC aged aircraft decides to ignore tower instructions to GA. The crew has radio and confirms clear to land, and suddenly, cant figure out out to use the radio until on the ground.
How to prevent it from happening again? Add more complexity to a system? How many others have had this problem?
Why do refuse to sanction the crew?
Last edited by underfire; 28th Oct 2017 at 18:10.
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I would argue two reasons.
First, it does not accomplish anything. The crew did not intentionally do this. I think the only time it makes sense is if the person willfully ignored procedures without a valid reason. It is important to apply local rationality, "why did it make sense for the person to do what they had done at the time".
Second, this is clearly a system issue. Missing the radio call was almost certainly due to some inadvertent action on the part of the pilot or something in the equipment design. Humans work around these issues constantly, but sometimes we are not able to for various reasons. This is a highlight of a design issue for either the equipment or the system as a whole, or, more likely, both.
The fact that others have been able to compensate for it does not mean that a failure won't happen eventually. One of the aspects that led to the AS 261 accident was that the service panel for the jack screw was too small to see in when your hand was in the hole to service it, so you had to do it by feel. Eventually that led to an accident, but for many years people were able to adapt to the poor design.
First, it does not accomplish anything. The crew did not intentionally do this. I think the only time it makes sense is if the person willfully ignored procedures without a valid reason. It is important to apply local rationality, "why did it make sense for the person to do what they had done at the time".
Second, this is clearly a system issue. Missing the radio call was almost certainly due to some inadvertent action on the part of the pilot or something in the equipment design. Humans work around these issues constantly, but sometimes we are not able to for various reasons. This is a highlight of a design issue for either the equipment or the system as a whole, or, more likely, both.
The fact that others have been able to compensate for it does not mean that a failure won't happen eventually. One of the aspects that led to the AS 261 accident was that the service panel for the jack screw was too small to see in when your hand was in the hole to service it, so you had to do it by feel. Eventually that led to an accident, but for many years people were able to adapt to the poor design.
Just thinking about the regular airports I operate into and if I know where the tower is...
I am wondering to myself whether visual signals might be worth a very quick mention during my approach brief? "On final approach, the tower will be to our right/left. If we lose radios during short finals, a flashing red from the tower means go-around".
Only useful with a decent cloudbase though. I like the idea of a simple red strobe as part of the threshold lights.
2 minutes of silence on sfo ground does not happen
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NacCan report
TSB Report#A17F0261: C-GPWG, an Airbus 320 aircraft operated by Air Canada, was conducting flight ACA781 from Montreal, QC (CYUL) to San Francisco, CA (KSFO) with 5 crew members and 144 passengers on board. After having received the proper clearance to land on Runway 28R at KSFO, the flight crew continued their approach and landed uneventfully. Following the landing and after the flight was handed over to ground control, ATC requested that the flight crew contact them by phone once the flight was secure. Subsequently, the flight crew was informed that the tower had unsuccessfully attempted to contact them while on final approach. The flight crew advised that they had not heard any calls after receiving their clearance to land. The operator is investigating the incident.
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I've accidentally caught the on/off switch once or twice. Never actually turned the box off but I would imagine it can be done.
Frequency transfer pushbutton at no. 2, the on/off switch is at no. 9.
Frequency transfer pushbutton at no. 2, the on/off switch is at no. 9.
Capn Bloggs
For goodness sake, uplinker... Just don't land on a runway that's got an aeroplane on it! You will never get airborne if you start briefing that stuff.
For goodness sake, uplinker... Just don't land on a runway that's got an aeroplane on it! You will never get airborne if you start briefing that stuff.
During the approach brief (clue: you're already airborne); would you rather have someone droning on for 5 mins about all the things you can both read on the approach plate, (and have flown hundreds of times), or would a better use of time be to think about the unlikely stuff: baulked landings, brake failure, discontinued approaches, Comms failures etc.?
Having had to remind more than one chap over the years what certain ground marshalling signals mean, I tend towards the latter.
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I think it important fo note that the runway was clear by the time they were over a mile from touchdown.
What if the reason the previous ac went long was for a blown tire and there was FOD on the runway?
Again, when told to GA, (8 times) you dont try to guess what the reason is, you just do it.
No worries, the CVR will show what really happened...oh wait, this is AC.
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Actually, SWA was well clear of the runway by the time AC was between 2 and 1.5 miles from the approach end, let alone the touchdown target. Not particularly unusual spacing.
Pilots are terrible at succumbing to fundamental attribution error, I must say.
Pilots are terrible at succumbing to fundamental attribution error, I must say.
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Early in my career we didn't have those dual tuning heads. When we got them (and were so pleased with them) fingers stayed away from them, not unlike a lot of flight deck discipline, like not shutting off the fuel to an engine. Those levers/switches are there for the very careless.