Boy, it's noisy in here!
India being India, is there any likelihood that we will EVER know what really happened?
Or should we just do the usual and keep on guessing until some other more interesting event pops up or until we all run out of breath?
Or should we just do the usual and keep on guessing until some other more interesting event pops up or until we all run out of breath?
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Originally Posted by Andy S
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Don't believe what you see in the films... ATC may have radar but that only confirms to ATC where and how high the aeroplanes are!
My bold.
That's exactly the point I was making. Someone other than the pilots must have noticed that the aircraft wasn't at the correct altitude.
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Don't believe what you see in the films... ATC may have radar but that only confirms to ATC where and how high the aeroplanes are!
My bold.
That's exactly the point I was making. Someone other than the pilots must have noticed that the aircraft wasn't at the correct altitude.
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Guys, remember the Falcon trijet in Florida that took off for a short hop after a long night over the atlantic? Crew thought they lost eng 2 after take off. After a quick investigation... eng 2 was never started...
SYSTEM BEHAVIOR
Question for A320 jocks (can't remeber after 20 years
):
Is there any change in system(s) behavior if the gear stays down?
E.g. will the FMA show CLB PWR when reaching thrust red alt?
Question for A320 jocks (can't remeber after 20 years
):Is there any change in system(s) behavior if the gear stays down?
E.g. will the FMA show CLB PWR when reaching thrust red alt?
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At least the penny eventually dropped. But what were these two doing that prevented them from an occasional scan around the aircraft? Why didn't they see an unusually low VMO due to gear down? The climb rate would have been pathetic but went un-noticed. I would suggest that the real problem lies upstream. There is probably a full circus of clowns in Flight Ops. and training. They have managed to recruit and train a crew in their own image.
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I do agree that it seems incredible that they simply didn't notice the noise, lack of performance and 3 green triangles on the dash. However, having flown around this part of the globe now for many years nothing surprises me any more.
Your last point. How the hell is radar and ATC going to figure out they have not retracted their gear?
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Recent involvement with a major uk airline where there is no after take off checklist just the action of placing the gear lever to the off position after flaps are up/in.This is progress apparently!
Having had the experience of a flight of over 200 miles with gear down ina 767 it is extremely noise in the cabin and there was a fair amount of buffeting and shaking too it does seem hard to believe. especially with the landing gear status lights glowing green and in a world of touch screens and dinky switches a relatively big handle thing sticking out in the wrong place.
Just out of interest though why do some airlines have an after take off check list and some don't - certainly after the 737 dead crew incident some years ago it would seem a good practice to double check a few critical items but then no doubt have a good reason for not doing it, not like the crew get paid by the check lists they do is it
Just out of interest though why do some airlines have an after take off check list and some don't - certainly after the 737 dead crew incident some years ago it would seem a good practice to double check a few critical items but then no doubt have a good reason for not doing it, not like the crew get paid by the check lists they do is it
Unbelievable that so many of you believe the juicy media 'blame the pilots, story'.
Maybe the gearpins were not removed before departure. This should be checked by the crew but apparently they didn't. Realizing their mistake directly after takeoff, they have a few options. Usually you would land at the place of departure, stow the gear pins, fuel up and buy a round of beer at your next layover.
However, maybe they were overweight for landing and preferred to proceed in the right direction while burning fuel?
Maybe they called the company and asked for advice. Maybe Kolkata was very congested and the company told them to continue towards destination and make a fuel- and gearpin removal stop along the way? Maybe Nagpur is a better place for maintenance?
Maybe this crew didn't want to admit the screw up because of cultural blaming/shaming issues and they preferred to continue towards destination?
In short: we don't know the full details here and it's not clear that the pilots are the ones to be blamed for this.
Maybe the gearpins were not removed before departure. This should be checked by the crew but apparently they didn't. Realizing their mistake directly after takeoff, they have a few options. Usually you would land at the place of departure, stow the gear pins, fuel up and buy a round of beer at your next layover.
However, maybe they were overweight for landing and preferred to proceed in the right direction while burning fuel?
Maybe they called the company and asked for advice. Maybe Kolkata was very congested and the company told them to continue towards destination and make a fuel- and gearpin removal stop along the way? Maybe Nagpur is a better place for maintenance?
Maybe this crew didn't want to admit the screw up because of cultural blaming/shaming issues and they preferred to continue towards destination?
In short: we don't know the full details here and it's not clear that the pilots are the ones to be blamed for this.
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Back in my flying days the first check and response on the pre flight start up check was 'Blanks and pins removed and stowed?' The reply had to be in the affirmative or you got out and checked.
Have things changed today?
Have things changed today?
Unbelievable that so many of you believe the juicy media 'blame the pilots, story'.
Maybe the gearpins were not removed before departure. This should be checked by the crew but apparently they didn't. Realizing their mistake directly after takeoff, they have a few options. Usually you would land at the place of departure, stow the gear pins, fuel up and buy a round of beer at your next layover.
However, maybe they were overweight for landing and preferred to proceed in the right direction while burning fuel?
Maybe they called the company and asked for advice. Maybe Kolkata was very congested and the company told them to continue towards destination and make a fuel- and gearpin removal stop along the way? Maybe Nagpur is a better place for maintenance?
Maybe this crew didn't want to admit the screw up because of cultural blaming/shaming issues and they preferred to continue towards destination?
In short: we don't know the full details here and it's not clear that the pilots are the ones to be blamed for this.
Maybe the gearpins were not removed before departure. This should be checked by the crew but apparently they didn't. Realizing their mistake directly after takeoff, they have a few options. Usually you would land at the place of departure, stow the gear pins, fuel up and buy a round of beer at your next layover.
However, maybe they were overweight for landing and preferred to proceed in the right direction while burning fuel?
Maybe they called the company and asked for advice. Maybe Kolkata was very congested and the company told them to continue towards destination and make a fuel- and gearpin removal stop along the way? Maybe Nagpur is a better place for maintenance?
Maybe this crew didn't want to admit the screw up because of cultural blaming/shaming issues and they preferred to continue towards destination?
In short: we don't know the full details here and it's not clear that the pilots are the ones to be blamed for this.
Before jumping on the bandwagon I'd urge everyone to think for a moment. All this is based on a press item in India, the standards of which make the Daily Mirror appear a pillar of ethical journalism.
The news may contain trace elements of truth (eg. possibly the fight did happen with gear extended), but the very fact that the gender of the pilots is mentioned should raise a flag. I cannot believe that anyone with enough competence to get a 320 into the air would fail to notice a GD situation. There are any number of possible explanatons, as some of the more sober posters have already outlined.
The news may contain trace elements of truth (eg. possibly the fight did happen with gear extended), but the very fact that the gender of the pilots is mentioned should raise a flag. I cannot believe that anyone with enough competence to get a 320 into the air would fail to notice a GD situation. There are any number of possible explanatons, as some of the more sober posters have already outlined.
Read the thread: This happened
Rather annoying to repeatedly see people commenting "this can't be real" or similar.
It's not hard to find the flight on FlightRadar24 Flightaware for July 22nd.
The flight diverted to Nagpur and never exceeded 24K feet...
Here, you can look for yourselves: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...355Z/VECC/VABB
It's not hard to find the flight on FlightRadar24 Flightaware for July 22nd.
The flight diverted to Nagpur and never exceeded 24K feet...
Here, you can look for yourselves: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...355Z/VECC/VABB
Before jumping on the bandwagon I'd urge everyone to think for a moment. All this is based on a press item in India, the standards of which make the Daily Mirror appear a pillar of ethical journalism.
The news may contain trace elements of truth (eg. possibly the fight did happen with gear extended), but the very fact that the gender of the pilots is mentioned should raise a flag. I cannot believe that anyone with enough competence to get a 320 into the air would fail to notice a GD situation. There are any number of possible explanatons, as some of the more sober posters have already outlined.
The news may contain trace elements of truth (eg. possibly the fight did happen with gear extended), but the very fact that the gender of the pilots is mentioned should raise a flag. I cannot believe that anyone with enough competence to get a 320 into the air would fail to notice a GD situation. There are any number of possible explanatons, as some of the more sober posters have already outlined.