Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

3 point turn in a 757

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

3 point turn in a 757

Old 27th Jun 2017, 09:25
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: EDDM
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by SFCC View Post
Have you ever been to JSI, or even looked at the runway plate??
http://fly.rocketroute.com/plates/ad...446.1498551701
oliver2002 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 15:31
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.K.
Posts: 9
A stunning amount of B-757 200 Cat C JSI experts who have never made the slightest error in their life I am humbled to be in such company.
Christopher Robin is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 15:34
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: my easychair
Posts: 31
plate says rwy 30 and strip 150. no indication of units of measure.
slack is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 16:53
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 340
@slack

so do you think the runway is 1628 feet or 1628 meters long?

btw there is a scale at the bottom in case you are looking at the same pdf linked above.

but yeah units are always nices
wiedehopf is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 17:26
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 67
Eyeballing from the video it looks like he turned 70 degrees off center line and stopped, then backed up unnecessarily.

Had he turned 45 degrees off center line towards the right runway edge, he could easily made a 180 turn, safely.

But for you naysayers, and techies:

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/com...aps/757_23.pdf

Section 4.3, page 73. 757-200, R3 (nose gear).

I may be reading it wrong (forgive me) but it looks like the 757 needs 71 feet or 21.6 meters to do a 180.
bloom is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 18:13
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,033
Originally Posted by bloom View Post
I may be reading it wrong (forgive me) but it looks like the 757 needs 71 feet or 21.6 meters to do a 180.
No, you don't want R3, you want the dimension labelled A (helpfully titled "Minimum width of pavement for 180 turn").

That's 120 feet or 36.4 meters for the 757-200 - though it would be a bold pilot who starts and ends a turn with the mains right on the edge of the runway.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 22:51
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by Superpilot View Post
A case of misjudging the radius of turn needed to exit. Started the turn then realised he's screwed up and now risks getting the main wheels on to grass.
Originally Posted by Skyjob View Post
Just simply using the full width of a runway will prevent this from happening. Many captains in my life have done a 180 ON the runway, initiating by going towards the runway edge before making a swing through the centreline. Never starting from its centreline!
Not an expert, but it looked like the 73 came from the same taxi the 75 was planning to use.

Somebody mentioned FOD and hot gas... With cowl reversers only redirecting the FAN output, how much hot gas could there be. More a thing of clamshells maybe?

Bad judgement, maybe. Maybe under advisement to vacate runway ASAP.

Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
Done rather neatly, I thought!!

In any case, as a "speck tater," certainly cool to watch on video. Prolly wouldn't want to be in the tube, though.
rottenray is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 23:41
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,425
Not an expert, but it looked like the 73 came from the same taxi the 75 was planning to use.
Not at all. It's entering the runway using the taxiway prior to the one the 757 was going for. Check out the link to the plate above.
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 04:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,859
though it would be a bold pilot who starts and ends a turn with the mains right on the edge of the runway.
Mains won't end anywhere near the edge.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 04:56
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 26
18 years and 9000 hrs on this bird. My fellow in the pointy bit had the right stuff. Did the appropriate thing. Got him self out of an tight spot. Got every one to the beach... and the fuzz is?
Remember, rolling up the OM (A) or (B) or what ever they call them these days, and sticking it up your a**e will never substitute experience.
The gent or missus in the LHS knew exactly what he or she was doing....
Early Right is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 06:40
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.K.
Posts: 9
Thank god some real pilots have arrived on PPRuNe ! (I think it was set up for pilots Danny said a long time ago !)
Christopher Robin is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 07:40
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,033
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Mains won't end anywhere near the edge.
If the mains don't need to start and end at the edge of the runway then, by definition, you're on a runway that's wider than the theoretical minimum required for a 180, which is what we're discussing here.

Let me (or rather, Boeing) draw you a picture:



Nobody is suggesting that you would actually DO this in practice.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 07:58
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 7,859
Do what, exactly? Use the whole runway width to do your 180?? I do it all the time... You'd be a mug to turn tighter than you need to for a 180 on a runway. In any case, in the 180 in the diagram, it is obvious that after the turn, the main wheels are nowhere near the edge. As I said. The limiting issue is the NW track.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 08:05
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,033
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
The limiting issue is the NW track.
Good point. Appointment with optician made.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 09:21
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,509
The gent or missus in the LHS knew exactly what he or she was doing....

Surely someone who knew exactly what they were doing would have used the turning circle at the end, not risked a burst tyre shortening the landing roll out, not risked going over the hard pan edge, not embarked on a risky manoeuvre that could have blocked the runway for a long time, not induced brake calling issues.

The ATC "expedite' issue is a red herring. B757 rolls out, goes to turning circle, makes 180, back tracks rwy and vacates. B737 enters rwy, back tracks, goes to turning circle, makes 180 and holds. Difference in time? Nano seconds.

I wonder what the conversation was like in the cockpit afterwards. I suspect the F/O was asking some questions.

I suspect there will be many on here who will have to agree to disagree. IMHO this was a risky attempt to make a turn off, unnecessarily. There was doubt, and when there's doubt there is no doubt.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 14:18
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 124
Mixed Units

Why does the chart give the runway length in meters and the width in feet?
Vzlet is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 14:26
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 86
It doesn't.
Joe_K is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:13
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,863
Not long retired from the Company in question - Cat C qualified LHS for Skiathos. I make no observations other than: a. that I always went to the end and did a very careful 180 using the turning circle and b. This is the first time I have heard of anyone in my former Company making such a manouvre though of course it is a feasible option in extremis.

nb Due to parking restrictions ( even with new ramp ) it is not unusual for crews to be asked to expedite the runway.
beamer is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:25
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 124
It doesn't.

Whoops. I'll see if I can get in after Dave R's appointment!
Vzlet is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 15:32
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: <60 minutes
Posts: 111
Anti skid work below 30/40 on a boeing?

Personally always release the anchors for this reason if making the exit is iffy, particularly at a base with no eng cover to change the flat spotted black circles.

Like the pragmatism thereafter though...
darkbarly is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.