China Eastern in heavy turbulence
Psychophysiological entity
Phantom driver said:
When you see a towering CB flashing away like the paparazzi at the Emmy awards, then there is no question as to the severity of what you will encounter by going straight through it. I've seen these guys fly through it with my own eyes, not by observing the TCAS, but visually.
ELAC
Working for a company that has had CAAC throw the book at us for minor infractions without a thorough investigation, then demand that the crew be fired for making a mistake in which ATC played a major part. Add to that the demerit points for foreign airlines. Recently Emirates has had their expansion in China halted for 6 months for minor violations. I think I have every right to be cynical.
Reminds me of that old observation- "one guy's light chop is another guy's severe turbulence"
ELAC
I wouldn't be quite so cynical. Having met some of the CAAC people with safety investigative functions over the years I'm pretty sure that the event will be looked at quite carefully. I doubt anyone will get fired, but unless the event proves to be a sudden onset of CAT my guess is that there will definitely be some punishments.
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The aircraft flew directly through a relatively large CB. CB altitude wasn't that high (it's not the tropics, after all) but it was still a sizable storm.
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I have had this concern with enroute RNP procedures. While advertised as point to point, I have some real concerns on its use, specifically on the weather/turbulence issues.
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Why not an enroute landing in such condition?
Actually a nice video of TX activity at night . I once flew parallel to a line of storms across India during the monsoon season. Line stretched for 150 miles, with a nonstop display of fireworks lighting up the clouds from within . Spectacular, and beautiful to see at night . However, glad I wasn't heading north/south and having to make a decision where to penetrate the line .
Just for the benefit of the uninitiated , the guys in the video were doing a pretty good job of deviating around the cells. Look at the radar (as previously mentioned, worked great on the 744 ) and you see clearly defined gaps . Industry standard says to avoid cells at altitude by 20 miles , but we know that is not always possible....
Nevertheless , looked like a smooth ride on the flight deck , apart from a brief spell of (usually expected) rain/chop at the end as they cleared the edge of the system.
I bet the champagne continued to flow in First Class
Nemrytter
“This will be your first case then.”
I will clarify my comments from my previous post. I am aware that Chinese airlines, like ALL airlines accidently stumble into CB’s occasionally.
I meant to be more specific. No Chinese crew I have ever shared a cockpit with has ever PURPOSEFULY entered a CB because of a “cultural aspect” or because of “face saving” as suggested by a previous post.
For what its worth, the WORST CB encounter I have close knowledge of from a previous employer resulted in serious injuries to several on board. The captain was Australian.
“This will be your first case then.”
I will clarify my comments from my previous post. I am aware that Chinese airlines, like ALL airlines accidently stumble into CB’s occasionally.
I meant to be more specific. No Chinese crew I have ever shared a cockpit with has ever PURPOSEFULY entered a CB because of a “cultural aspect” or because of “face saving” as suggested by a previous post.
For what its worth, the WORST CB encounter I have close knowledge of from a previous employer resulted in serious injuries to several on board. The captain was Australian.
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I'm not surprised. We continually read here about Asian pilots ploughing into CBs and the like, and yet there are a distinct lack of reported incidents, injuries or hulls being tossed about you would expect if that's true. I suspect confirmation bias on the part of those who have a preconceived opinion is all these reports are. Think of all those flights through SE Asia and the ITCZ everyday, and zero incidents, despite these supposedly suicidal pilots.
As far as I can tell, pilots in tropical countries spend far more time in precarious weather than pilots in developed nations, by accident of geography. I live in Colombia, and the conditions for flying all year round are appalling. And yet I know of not a single incident in my 2 years here due to penetrating a CB. I actually think that's incredible given how the satellite looks at times, and flights I've taken when we've been lit up like a disco from lightning on all sides at cruise, and yet not felt a bump, while weaving through towering clouds all around. It's actually incredibly impressive how they keep Colombian airspace going many days of the year.
Pilots in these parts of the world deserve more respect for what they go through day in, day out, maybe westerners could even learn something from them?
As far as I can tell, pilots in tropical countries spend far more time in precarious weather than pilots in developed nations, by accident of geography. I live in Colombia, and the conditions for flying all year round are appalling. And yet I know of not a single incident in my 2 years here due to penetrating a CB. I actually think that's incredible given how the satellite looks at times, and flights I've taken when we've been lit up like a disco from lightning on all sides at cruise, and yet not felt a bump, while weaving through towering clouds all around. It's actually incredibly impressive how they keep Colombian airspace going many days of the year.
Pilots in these parts of the world deserve more respect for what they go through day in, day out, maybe westerners could even learn something from them?
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Some updates today:
"Despite being night time, it was not completely dark, clouds tops were clearly visible about 2000 feet below the aircraft, the weather radar produced yellow returns. The crew decided to fly over the cloud tops, the aircraft however encountered severe turbulence above the clouds. "
Yikes.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4aa7de17&opt=0
"Despite being night time, it was not completely dark, clouds tops were clearly visible about 2000 feet below the aircraft, the weather radar produced yellow returns. The crew decided to fly over the cloud tops, the aircraft however encountered severe turbulence above the clouds. "
Yikes.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4aa7de17&opt=0
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do you not also know it's NOT in Siberia?? It like Chelyabinsk, Perm & Ekaterinburg are in URAL Region, which has not changed in the last 2 centuries as being part of EUROPEAN RUSSIA!
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Russians would disagree. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тюмень
Translation: Tyumen is situated in the Western Siberia.
It is also quite clearly to the east of Ural mountains (though mountains do not really extend that far south).
Тюмень расположена на юге Западной Сибири
It is also quite clearly to the east of Ural mountains (though mountains do not really extend that far south).
I think that you are both talking at cross purposes and are both sort of right (or wrong, whichever).
It depends if you are talking about Russian Federal Districts or any one of the historical perceptions of what constitutes "Siberia".
I was quite surprised to only find out recently that Siberia does not extend eastwards all the way to the Pacific and that the area north of Khabarovsk and east of Yakutsk, the home of the few remaining Siberian tigers, is not in fact part of geographic or political Siberia.
It depends if you are talking about Russian Federal Districts or any one of the historical perceptions of what constitutes "Siberia".
I was quite surprised to only find out recently that Siberia does not extend eastwards all the way to the Pacific and that the area north of Khabarovsk and east of Yakutsk, the home of the few remaining Siberian tigers, is not in fact part of geographic or political Siberia.
