USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight
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With respect, and in respect to the CVR, I think you are missing the point. You want to know what happened, you want to know who said what, when and to whom. Fine. May I suggest that you just ask them, bearing in mind that every conversation has at least two witnesses available to you ? In what circumstances do you think you would need to pull the CVR in this case? If you need to understand why 250 bodies are lying on the ocean floor ok, but in this pathetic example of US cultural goat f+ck?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: On a different planet, so it appears...
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This case will indeed go to trial.United may want to settle, hell it's in their best interest to settle. However, Dr. Dao's attorney is the one dictating the terms, including compensatory and punitive damages. Compensatory is easy...hospital and rehab, plus loss of income etc. Punitive damages are up to a jury, and in this case the potential is massive. If you can rx $93M for spilling hot coffee in your groin, imagine what you can rx for fractured sinuses received at the hands of an airline and police to remove you from an airplane that you had boarded and on which you were peacefully waiting to depart.
The absolute disdain that the industry feels for it's clients is displayed right here, and it's evident in the term SLF...Self Loading Freight. It's f-ing arrogant, demeaning and intentionally disrespectful of the people that you are paid to serve. I only have 3.3M miles in the air, mostly on AA, but there is no f-ing way that I would have given up my seat on the plane if it was going to cost me a full days worth of income. A pissant $800 voucher with an expiration date wouldn't make up the difference.
BTW, quite a few of the people you denigrate as SLF...are a lot smarter than you. We not only fly on our own, we designed and built your goddamn planes.
The absolute disdain that the industry feels for it's clients is displayed right here, and it's evident in the term SLF...Self Loading Freight. It's f-ing arrogant, demeaning and intentionally disrespectful of the people that you are paid to serve. I only have 3.3M miles in the air, mostly on AA, but there is no f-ing way that I would have given up my seat on the plane if it was going to cost me a full days worth of income. A pissant $800 voucher with an expiration date wouldn't make up the difference.
BTW, quite a few of the people you denigrate as SLF...are a lot smarter than you. We not only fly on our own, we designed and built your goddamn planes.
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"oldtora" Are you for real? Or are you just a troll?
I have seen 3 - 4 different videos of the incident, and not in one of them is he having a hissy fit or being violent.
Only when he is assaulted by the security/police, does he start screaming, and judging by his injuries we can understand why, the guy is 69 years old, please dont be a complete fool "oldtora"
In addition I would believe the 3 others, will probably be lawyerd up soon if not already, as they also have a strong case as they was most likely unlawfully disembarked of the aircraft, and they was not volunteers either, as it seems.
Anyone still defending UA's actions against this passenger, and who believes SkyGod can dismiss anyone he wants from the flight deck, needs to take a step down from his/her cloud.
I have seen 3 - 4 different videos of the incident, and not in one of them is he having a hissy fit or being violent.
Only when he is assaulted by the security/police, does he start screaming, and judging by his injuries we can understand why, the guy is 69 years old, please dont be a complete fool "oldtora"
In addition I would believe the 3 others, will probably be lawyerd up soon if not already, as they also have a strong case as they was most likely unlawfully disembarked of the aircraft, and they was not volunteers either, as it seems.
Anyone still defending UA's actions against this passenger, and who believes SkyGod can dismiss anyone he wants from the flight deck, needs to take a step down from his/her cloud.
Nope, just pax. Please stand back and reconsider. All I am saying is that all participants are here and available for cross examination. Given that, why is the CVR given so many posts? All the action was in the passenger cabin where the CC rule. Is there a CVR recording what they said?
N4790P
Cpt B
I spent 6 extremely pleasant years working for 3 then majors in the States in the 80’s when travelling was (almost) a pleasure. Pre 9/11 so no restrictions on meet and great at the gate, no TSA, cabin crew who smiled and seemed to enjoy making the journey as comfortable as possible etc.. Yes, there was overbooking then but is seemed to be handled with care and the customer was treated as the customer.
I have spent all of the 21st century in an environment where customer service is still paramount and like you I too hope something really positive comes out of this whereby attitudes change and ground staff and cabin crew remember what their purpose is.
In many ways, the US travelling public have brought this on themselves with the race to the bottom on prices and the inevitable erosion of service, often under the guise of safety and security. Whether they will now accept the inevitable (modest) price increase to offset the cost of improved conditions remains to be seen.
I would also hope that non US carriers looking to further erode conditions (10 abreast 777 seating, BoB and the like) will also take note that there does come a point when even the most docile of passengers do rebel.
Sorry
Working for a LoCo, that never overbooks and does not do stby tqts.
Or connecting flights, DG ,Animals, UM , LongHaul, CodeShare or diffrent classes for that mater.
Just from A to B , on time! Most times!
If the Big Guys let a full fare PAX travel a day late after a noshow with no notice/rebooking, then they do have a strange set up.
What do I know, just been flying for 29 years .
And what I have seen as a customer after 9/11 is sad.
Watching this Corporate Crash Investigation unfold the last days in hyperdrive , is rather envigorateing , I must say!
The stress and the false use of the security card of all involved has turned off the pax bigtime.
Lets hope something positive comes out of this.
Regards Cpt B
Working for a LoCo, that never overbooks and does not do stby tqts.
Or connecting flights, DG ,Animals, UM , LongHaul, CodeShare or diffrent classes for that mater.
Just from A to B , on time! Most times!
If the Big Guys let a full fare PAX travel a day late after a noshow with no notice/rebooking, then they do have a strange set up.
What do I know, just been flying for 29 years .
And what I have seen as a customer after 9/11 is sad.
Watching this Corporate Crash Investigation unfold the last days in hyperdrive , is rather envigorateing , I must say!
The stress and the false use of the security card of all involved has turned off the pax bigtime.
Lets hope something positive comes out of this.
Regards Cpt B
I have spent all of the 21st century in an environment where customer service is still paramount and like you I too hope something really positive comes out of this whereby attitudes change and ground staff and cabin crew remember what their purpose is.
In many ways, the US travelling public have brought this on themselves with the race to the bottom on prices and the inevitable erosion of service, often under the guise of safety and security. Whether they will now accept the inevitable (modest) price increase to offset the cost of improved conditions remains to be seen.
I would also hope that non US carriers looking to further erode conditions (10 abreast 777 seating, BoB and the like) will also take note that there does come a point when even the most docile of passengers do rebel.
And what happens when United violates its own rules and federal law? Should the public meekly obey and take token vouchers for their trouble? Commands by flight crew are only binding when they are lawful.
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Ordering a sober/non-terrorist/non-security risk/ticketed/ and seated passenger to leave the cabin to accommodate airline employees is outside the terms of the CoC.
Just because "it's always been done that way" does not make it legal.
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All I'm saying is that pax have an obligation to meekly follow the reasonable rules of UA and the police , even if UA staff are not the brightest light bulbs . And UA cannot fly with more pax than there are seats . So , if someone is selected to leave , that's the way it is , end of story . If I am in a cloud to suggest meek cooperation as a way to get along , then I am in my cloud , happy and without the chaos about me at ORD . If it had been me , I would have meekly left the aircraft . Think about it
"Why are you selecting me instead of that guy over there? Are you profiling me because I'm Asian?" (not applicable in my case, but it's an option, and perfectly understandable under the circumstances).
"I'm traveling with my wife. Why are you breaking us up, when you only need one seat?"
"Give me a minute to write down your name (and badge number, if it's LEO) for further action. You and everyone up your chain of command will hear from my attorneys, and whatever local TV station is interested (the real threat)." And then leaning over to my wife, "You've got all this on your smartphone, right?"
And then I'd get up and leave. It's a long way from "meek" compliance, and it looks like this is what a paying passenger is required to do these days to get reasonable service for their money.
But in fact, they did not offer him a seat on that later flight. Nor did they offer him a seat on the following morning's flight; nor on the mid/late morning flight.
Nor did they offer to get him on any competitor's flights - probably understandable, but it was an option; to try at least.
That is precisely why and when he dug his heels in. Which is also when UA decided to execute their perceived next-best option.
The CVR and FDR are for accident investigation and ONLY for accident investigation.
I would hope that pilot unions across the World would threaten strike action if they are used for anything else. (Yes I know they have been)
Would anyone who works in an office permit their every move and comment to be recorded and possibly used against them by their company or the courts? Can you imagine the screams of outrage?
We, magnanimously, permitted CVR and FDR to assist accident investigation and to avoid repeating errors; not for greedy litigation!
I would hope that pilot unions across the World would threaten strike action if they are used for anything else. (Yes I know they have been)
Would anyone who works in an office permit their every move and comment to be recorded and possibly used against them by their company or the courts? Can you imagine the screams of outrage?
We, magnanimously, permitted CVR and FDR to assist accident investigation and to avoid repeating errors; not for greedy litigation!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Perhaps it's a wake up call that the violent response by US police to minor incidents has reached an epidemic?
It was not the last UA flight home on that day. There was a later flight but Dr Dao was not offered a seat on that later flight, though it seems that he would have been prepared to accept that as an offer.
But in fact, they did not offer him a seat on that later flight. Nor did they offer him a seat on the following morning's flight; nor on the mid/late morning flight.
Nor did they offer to get him on any competitor's flights - probably understandable, but it was an option; to try at least.
That is precisely why and when he dug his heels in. Which is also when UA decided to execute their perceived next-best option.
But in fact, they did not offer him a seat on that later flight. Nor did they offer him a seat on the following morning's flight; nor on the mid/late morning flight.
Nor did they offer to get him on any competitor's flights - probably understandable, but it was an option; to try at least.
That is precisely why and when he dug his heels in. Which is also when UA decided to execute their perceived next-best option.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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and rehab, plus loss of income etc. Punitive damages are up to a jury, and in this case the potential is massive. If you can rx $93M for spilling hot coffee in your groin,
Now the nature of the injuries inflicted on the passenger are coming to light (two teeth knocked out, broken nose, serious concussion) I cannot believe the US criminal (not civil) legal system has achieved nothing. Apparently the perpetrator is just on "administrative leave". Whyever have they not been arrested for a serious assault and put into custody ?
The injuries are also not particularly consistent with the grab and pull from seat that we saw. To me, they sound more like someone who has been taken round the corner into the jetway and then been given a good "seeing to" by a group of giggling thugs.
The injuries are also not particularly consistent with the grab and pull from seat that we saw. To me, they sound more like someone who has been taken round the corner into the jetway and then been given a good "seeing to" by a group of giggling thugs.
Yes, it seems the 'SLF' are indeed wising up to the bully boy tactics, as well as the contempt we are held in by some smarties up the pointy end, things are changing.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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As the doctor was pulled from his seat his head came down very heavily on an adjacent arm rest and I think you will find that is where the injuries occurred.
The thug who physically removed the Doctor from the flight was employed by the airport security services, he was an ex policeman and had history. He was not a serving police officer, nor was he a United Airlines employee.
Federal Protective Services.
I think those of us who recall the old police line "during the arrest the prisoner unfortunately fell awkwardly and that is why he has these injuries all over" will at least be raising eyebrows ...