USA Today: UA forcibly remove random pax from flight
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Computer generated draw
Hearing this comment I have this vision of a Slot machine style compiter near every boarding gate where the one armed bandit is pulled to randomly spit out seat numbers!!!
Seriously do reservation/gate computers have an option built into them like an app for such a random draw? Suspect the lawyers will have a field day discovering that!
Seriously do reservation/gate computers have an option built into them like an app for such a random draw? Suspect the lawyers will have a field day discovering that!
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We are a few facts short here.
The over booking/boarding issue is one of them. Are you boarded when you pass the last gate, when you first touch the aircraft, cross its threshold or when your bum hits the seat. An airline might argue its when the aircraft departs with you. Overbooking - the seats available for sale does not equal the number of passengers that can be carried. There are many reasons for this an one of them is carrying crew. Deadheading crew reduce the number of seats available for sale and thus turn a fully booked aircraft into an over booked one.
Deadheading Crew do not pitch up at the gate and demand to fly on a whim. They are told by their Crewing Dept. to go to XYZ and the system has to deal with it.
Regarding who gets select to be offloaded; this is often done by algorithms in a booking system. Those considered to be of a lower commercial value with an airline will be chosen. Very harsh if you are chosen. Deadheading crew have the second highest priority on flights, the highest goes to engineers with tools traveling to fix broken aircraft. They will always be a carried, no matter what argument is put forward.
We don't have a clue what was said by whom and when. We do know this particular passenger has a strange reaction to stress. If this guy is a surgeon I hope he doesn't suffer with episodes such as this with an patient open on the table in front of him.
The customer service game is lost as soon as law enforcement officers show up. The deal with what they see in front of them and act accordingly.
Social media is not always fair. Clips, whilst accurate, may be taken out of context and be lacking the less newsworthy or story undermining build-up. Furthermore, to say a thing is right or wrong does not depend on onlookers shouting and screaming, it depends on the facts. But you can't delete posted social media. It's there forever (United breaks guitars). So even if you are right, your story may not be heard because social media will unfairly shout louder.
What was clear is that UA didn't allow an auction to take place. They relied on their CofC to give them a "legal" right to deny boarding. UA and every other airline might want to review their policies as every now and again a passenger unable to control themselves may be chosen and in return give you a very expensive PR headache.
The over booking/boarding issue is one of them. Are you boarded when you pass the last gate, when you first touch the aircraft, cross its threshold or when your bum hits the seat. An airline might argue its when the aircraft departs with you. Overbooking - the seats available for sale does not equal the number of passengers that can be carried. There are many reasons for this an one of them is carrying crew. Deadheading crew reduce the number of seats available for sale and thus turn a fully booked aircraft into an over booked one.
Deadheading Crew do not pitch up at the gate and demand to fly on a whim. They are told by their Crewing Dept. to go to XYZ and the system has to deal with it.
Regarding who gets select to be offloaded; this is often done by algorithms in a booking system. Those considered to be of a lower commercial value with an airline will be chosen. Very harsh if you are chosen. Deadheading crew have the second highest priority on flights, the highest goes to engineers with tools traveling to fix broken aircraft. They will always be a carried, no matter what argument is put forward.
We don't have a clue what was said by whom and when. We do know this particular passenger has a strange reaction to stress. If this guy is a surgeon I hope he doesn't suffer with episodes such as this with an patient open on the table in front of him.
The customer service game is lost as soon as law enforcement officers show up. The deal with what they see in front of them and act accordingly.
Social media is not always fair. Clips, whilst accurate, may be taken out of context and be lacking the less newsworthy or story undermining build-up. Furthermore, to say a thing is right or wrong does not depend on onlookers shouting and screaming, it depends on the facts. But you can't delete posted social media. It's there forever (United breaks guitars). So even if you are right, your story may not be heard because social media will unfairly shout louder.
What was clear is that UA didn't allow an auction to take place. They relied on their CofC to give them a "legal" right to deny boarding. UA and every other airline might want to review their policies as every now and again a passenger unable to control themselves may be chosen and in return give you a very expensive PR headache.
I assume that when they state that "the computer" selected candidate passengers to bump, they were looking for people with no checked luggage. So as not to have to dig through the hold and look for their bags.
This is the downside to trying to cram everything into carry-on.
This is the downside to trying to cram everything into carry-on.
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The Airline may not have a limit on how much they can offer to convince people to get off; but the individual(s) in charge in this case might perhaps have such a limit, or they may have to explain every $$ spent. I am not sure where we can find what the exact UAL procedure is (was), we are only told that everyone had followed it.
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It is OK folks; that great travel guru, Simon Calder has resolved it all. He has told us the Captain issued the order for this bloke to be removed and therefore the passenger was breaking the law by refusing to comply.
Even more reason to ignore Mr Calder!
Even more reason to ignore Mr Calder!
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Agreed - but whether he was breaking the law or not (and UA are probably within their rights to ask anyone they want to leave one of their planes) it is the manner in which they did it which has generated a quadzillion clicks
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If United fail to build up some public confidence up and these scandals continue then I doubt that UA will be around in a couple of years time. You might say that I am going over the top however they will have lost millions of potential (and current) customers over the last few weeks with the previous incident around clothing and now this. Personally I wouldn't fly with them and family have now booked flights with EI rather than UA.
And get rid of the CEO.
And get rid of the CEO.
It looks like things have just got a lot worse for United by picking an international fight they really didn't ought to...
tohttp://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/11/as...hina-reaction/
tohttp://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/11/as...hina-reaction/
Last edited by connoisseur; 11th Apr 2017 at 17:09. Reason: url
As a matter of law, I can't see why. There are potentially two matters here: 1) whether UAL breached their contract of service and overreached their authority per their own CoC, in which case no, the pax' criminal history is completely irrelevant; and 2) whether the pax is guilty of any criminal offence in protesting his removal.
In the latter case, supposing he were to be prosecuted, even his past convictions aren't admissible as evidence until after conviction, and then may only be used when considering aggravating factors where relevant during sentencing.
In the latter case, supposing he were to be prosecuted, even his past convictions aren't admissible as evidence until after conviction, and then may only be used when considering aggravating factors where relevant during sentencing.
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If United fail to build up some public confidence up and these scandals continue then I doubt that UA will be around in a couple of years time. You might say that I am going over the top however they will have lost millions of potential (and current) customers over the last few weeks with the previous incident around clothing and now this. Personally I wouldn't fly with them and family have now booked flights with EI rather than UA.
And get rid of the CEO.
And get rid of the CEO.
As someone whose local airport is EWR, I'm afraid that United will still be around in the future. We have an oligopoly with a government that believes in emasculating regulatory agencies. They will never act in the public interest. I'd rather not give my $$ to United, but in many cases I have no practical option.
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United's PR is at such a low point now that they might as well "dig in", i.e., appear conciliatory but stick to their version of the facts that the pax was belligerent and disruptive while United employees followed industry-standard procedures and practices, including seeking involvement from the Chicago Aviation Police.
It's not going to be popular but any backtracking will probably hurt them more.
It's not going to be popular but any backtracking will probably hurt them more.
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Read most of the 30 pages; Got questions........
The instant that he refused to deplane wasn't he in violation of failing to comply with crew member instructions (FARS)? Screw UA's mumbo jumbo carriage rules.
What law enforcement agency allows blue jeans on duty ? Real cops? Or ORD rent a cops?
Ten minutes after being dragged off the plane he gets back on ?
What real cops practice "Catch and Release"?
The instant that he refused to deplane wasn't he in violation of failing to comply with crew member instructions (FARS)? Screw UA's mumbo jumbo carriage rules.
What law enforcement agency allows blue jeans on duty ? Real cops? Or ORD rent a cops?
Ten minutes after being dragged off the plane he gets back on ?
What real cops practice "Catch and Release"?
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They are real cops (i.e., deputized police officers) but work for the City of Chicago Department of Aviation instead of Chicago PD. However, they're not allowed to carry guns. Their duties are similar to transit police officers elsewhere in the country (e.g., Amtrak police, NY Port Authority police, etc.)
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Was the deadhead crew definitely Republic? Or were they mainline United?
Did an operating crewmember order the passenger to deplane? Or was it a gate agent?
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Read most of the 30 pages; Got questions........
The instant that he refused to deplane wasn't he in violation of failing to comply with crew member instructions (FARS)? Screw UA's mumbo jumbo carriage rules.
What law enforcement agency allows blue jeans on duty ? Real cops? Or ORD rent a cops?
Ten minutes after being dragged off the plane he gets back on ?
What real cops practice "Catch and Release"?
The instant that he refused to deplane wasn't he in violation of failing to comply with crew member instructions (FARS)? Screw UA's mumbo jumbo carriage rules.
What law enforcement agency allows blue jeans on duty ? Real cops? Or ORD rent a cops?
Ten minutes after being dragged off the plane he gets back on ?
What real cops practice "Catch and Release"?
It looks like things have just got a lot worse for United by picking an international fight they really didn't ought to...
Man filmed being dragged off United flight causes outrage in China - CNN.com
Man filmed being dragged off United flight causes outrage in China - CNN.com
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Read USDOJ report on CPD.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/u...port.html?_r=0