Lap top and tablet ban
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Laptop Ban Reaction to X-Ray Equipment Stolen by ISIS
This appeared on my news feed. I have no idea as to the veracity but it's an interesting possibility:
https://professional-troublemaker.co...tolen-by-isis/
https://professional-troublemaker.co...tolen-by-isis/
Join Date: Dec 2006
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If you see my post on the previous page http://www.pprune.org/9775809-post341.html you will see there was nothing 'secret' about it except n the fervent mind of some western journalists who think everything revolves around their political mores.
It was common knowledge that Mosul university was being used by bomb makers and chemical weapons members of ISIS to generate new weapons that could be used. This is not exactly earth shaking as terrorists have made use of airport scanning equipment to test their ideas for years. So there were no 'secrets'
Unfortunately, the world is not easily split into 'Orange' and 'Blue' forces any more and there are times when alliances have to be struck in ways that small minded politicians and their media hacks find difficult to grasp. It is all part of 'The Great Game'
It was common knowledge that Mosul university was being used by bomb makers and chemical weapons members of ISIS to generate new weapons that could be used. This is not exactly earth shaking as terrorists have made use of airport scanning equipment to test their ideas for years. So there were no 'secrets'
Unfortunately, the world is not easily split into 'Orange' and 'Blue' forces any more and there are times when alliances have to be struck in ways that small minded politicians and their media hacks find difficult to grasp. It is all part of 'The Great Game'
the professional pilots here have to sit at the sharp end... how comfortable (or otherwise) does the thought of a new type of bomb in a laptop ( or whatever) make them feel?
Yes, there is only a slight chance of it disrupting an individual flight but, as someone once said... "for each flight, it's 50-50 - it either will, or it won't..."
Yes, there is only a slight chance of it disrupting an individual flight but, as someone once said... "for each flight, it's 50-50 - it either will, or it won't..."
Since there are about 24,000 flights every day within the US with zero bombs going off, and two to three thousand every day across the Atlantic also with zero bombs going off (in recent years), suggesting that it's 50-50 seems silly.
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It seems the Manchester bomb was of a high tech nature hence the increase in threat level
Is this now going lead the UK govt to agree with the US on a total ban on laptops in the cabin?
Is this now going lead the UK govt to agree with the US on a total ban on laptops in the cabin?
The IT security blogger Bruce Schneier wrote about this in an essay last week on CNN.com, updated on his own site:
Extending the Airplane Laptop Ban
Schneier isn't everyone's flavor of the month but I think his analysis of this issue makes sense.
Extending the Airplane Laptop Ban
Schneier isn't everyone's flavor of the month but I think his analysis of this issue makes sense.
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I'm a big fan of Bruce Schneier -- I have every edition of his classic text "Applied Cryptography" -- however, being outside of the aviation industry he doesn't have much of the "facts" in this case (as we know them), some of which have been shared in this very thread.
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I've got the 1996 second edition of Applied Cryptography but I think Schneier is a doctor in a Bonanza when it comes to airport security. Since he is brilliant in the area of information security he must be a great thinker in the area of physical security right? I'm not so sure.
Also, he is very political in his approach to public policy and has a long term axe to grind with the U.S. government stemming from his battles over ITAR crypto export regulations.
We have a couple of mutual acquaintances, including a family member, but I've never met Mr. Schneier. I occasionally read his blog.
Still, I'm glad you mentioned Applied Cryptography, it is very nicely done and this edition is a nostalgic read two decades later.
Also, he is very political in his approach to public policy and has a long term axe to grind with the U.S. government stemming from his battles over ITAR crypto export regulations.
We have a couple of mutual acquaintances, including a family member, but I've never met Mr. Schneier. I occasionally read his blog.
Still, I'm glad you mentioned Applied Cryptography, it is very nicely done and this edition is a nostalgic read two decades later.
What about camera crews and photographers who carry kilos of lumpy electronic gear onboard?
It is trivial to provide enough power to activate a camera to make the battery appear unadulterated, when the cells have been repacked with something deadly.
Unless every item is sniffed, a laptop ban seems half arsed...
Whilst I'm here, should we assume the reason the recent terrorist activity in U.K. did not result in a death toll in the hundreds, is that airport security was a detterant?
It is trivial to provide enough power to activate a camera to make the battery appear unadulterated, when the cells have been repacked with something deadly.
Unless every item is sniffed, a laptop ban seems half arsed...
Whilst I'm here, should we assume the reason the recent terrorist activity in U.K. did not result in a death toll in the hundreds, is that airport security was a detterant?
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The laptop ban may soon extend to all flights in and out of the U.S. according to this report:
Homeland Secretary Kelly considers laptop ban on all flights into US | Fox News
Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly said Sunday he’s considering a ban on passengers carrying laptop computers on all international flights in and out of the United States.
“I might,” Kelly said on “Fox News Sunday.” “There's a real threat -- numerous threats against aviation. That's really the thing that they are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of mostly U.S. folks.”
“I might,” Kelly said on “Fox News Sunday.” “There's a real threat -- numerous threats against aviation. That's really the thing that they are obsessed with, the terrorists, the idea of knocking down an airplane in flight, particularly if it's a U.S. carrier, particularly if it's full of mostly U.S. folks.”
.......should we assume the reason the recent terrorist activity in U.K. did not result in a death toll in the hundreds, is that airport security was a detterant?
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JetBlue flight diverted....laptop battery fire.
JetBlue flight diverted after laptop battery catches fire, officials say | Fox News
JetBlue flight diverted after laptop battery catches fire, officials say | Fox News
I'm in a lounge between flights somewhere (the location has been redacted to protect the guilty).
Twice on my trip, my carry-on was pulled off the x-ray line for a chemical swab. Once, the guy who was doing the swabbing got pulled aside by a supervisor (probably a discussion about vacation requests). So my bag is sitting in a line for a few minutes until some other operator walks up to take over. He looks at the queue, picks up my bag (next in line) and hands it to me. Then goes on to swab the next one in line, not knowing where his co-worker had left off.
Things would go a lot more smoothly if they'd just take the supervisors out back and shoot them. But then this is true of most jobs. The crisis level has been set to high, many people are running around like there's something up. And it's all beginning to resemble a Chinese fire drill.
Twice on my trip, my carry-on was pulled off the x-ray line for a chemical swab. Once, the guy who was doing the swabbing got pulled aside by a supervisor (probably a discussion about vacation requests). So my bag is sitting in a line for a few minutes until some other operator walks up to take over. He looks at the queue, picks up my bag (next in line) and hands it to me. Then goes on to swab the next one in line, not knowing where his co-worker had left off.
Things would go a lot more smoothly if they'd just take the supervisors out back and shoot them. But then this is true of most jobs. The crisis level has been set to high, many people are running around like there's something up. And it's all beginning to resemble a Chinese fire drill.
JetBlue flight diverted....laptop battery fire.
JetBlue flight diverted after laptop battery catches fire, officials say | Fox News
JetBlue flight diverted after laptop battery catches fire, officials say | Fox News
Never mind. I'm sure they will think of something, and will be back.
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Latest communication from IATA.
On 15 June 2017, senior officials from the European Commission (EC) and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) met in Malta as part of the on-going bilateral discussions concerning portable electronic device (PED) related restrictions. That meeting was followed by a 22 June 2017 European Union (EU) Stakeholder Advisory Group for Aviation Security meeting in Brussels where industry was given a progress report on this issue.
The EC, EU Member States, and DHS are in the process of developing a series of mitigating measures to manage the PED threat and to enhance aviation security measures generally. We understand that this will include both short and long term changes to security protocols and will affect European airports as well as the Middle East/North Africa airports currently subject to the ban.
We understand that the expansion of the PED restrictions is on hold while these amendments are in process. This could change if/when a new threat is detected. It is unclear at this time whether these new measures will result in any change to the existing ban.
We are pleased with this renewed commitment by DHS to work with their European counterparts to identify appropriate countermeasures to address this threat. We continue to encourage DHS to consult with industry further before expanding any part of the ban.
The EC, EU Member States, and DHS are in the process of developing a series of mitigating measures to manage the PED threat and to enhance aviation security measures generally. We understand that this will include both short and long term changes to security protocols and will affect European airports as well as the Middle East/North Africa airports currently subject to the ban.
We understand that the expansion of the PED restrictions is on hold while these amendments are in process. This could change if/when a new threat is detected. It is unclear at this time whether these new measures will result in any change to the existing ban.
We are pleased with this renewed commitment by DHS to work with their European counterparts to identify appropriate countermeasures to address this threat. We continue to encourage DHS to consult with industry further before expanding any part of the ban.
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As a Safety practitioner, I still don't understand the PED (Laptop) ban. There has clearly been a plausible threat identified by security agencies but not knowing what it is makes it all the more difficult to accept and understand. As risk managers, we mitigate against what we know and I have it on very good authority that even some airlines don't know what its all about. While it is evidently undesirable to have some kind of explosive device in the cabin, I think its even more undesirable to have a hold full of lithium ion batteries, especially given the current fire suppression systems installed on modern aircraft i.e. they'll make the fire worse, not better! In terms of the classic risk matrix, my gut feeling is that we are more likely to lose an airframe from the ban than from the threat and believe that those flights affected are now in the high probability/severity realm. What does everyone else think?
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Sadly, I suspect that if/when they lose an aircraft due to a battery fire in the hold, the loss will be blamed on something else.
If the lithium ion batteries continue to be the "go to" power source for most things electronic and they do not find a way to make them less fire prone, I can envision an eventual future where the batteries will come in several generic sizes/types (such as regular batteries come in AA, AAA, C, D, etc). You will purchase your device with a battery, then before getting on a plane, you will turn that battery in. While on the aircraft, you'll be able to operate your device "plugged in" to onboard power. Once you land, you'' go to a kiosk where you can rent a pre-charged battery to use while at your destination. On the return trip, you simply turn that battery back in, and get a replacement when you get home. It would be similar to the way (at least here in the US) you bring in your empty barb-b-que propane tank and swap it for a full one.
If the lithium ion batteries continue to be the "go to" power source for most things electronic and they do not find a way to make them less fire prone, I can envision an eventual future where the batteries will come in several generic sizes/types (such as regular batteries come in AA, AAA, C, D, etc). You will purchase your device with a battery, then before getting on a plane, you will turn that battery in. While on the aircraft, you'll be able to operate your device "plugged in" to onboard power. Once you land, you'' go to a kiosk where you can rent a pre-charged battery to use while at your destination. On the return trip, you simply turn that battery back in, and get a replacement when you get home. It would be similar to the way (at least here in the US) you bring in your empty barb-b-que propane tank and swap it for a full one.
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Although the laptop ban was not extended to more city pairs, enhanced security measures were announced on Wednesday by the Department of Homeland Security:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/06/28/...-united-states
Fact Sheet: Aviation Enhanced Security Measures for All Commercial Flights to the United States
Release Date: June 28, 2017
The United States and the global aviation community face an adaptive and agile enemy. Terrorist groups continue to target passenger aircraft, and we have seen a “spider web” of threats to commercial aviation as terrorist pursue new attack methods. Based on these concerns, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is working to raise the baseline of global aviation security to keep the traveling public safe, in coordination with our international partners.
Change to Global Aviation Security Requirements
In light of evaluated intelligence, Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly has determined it is necessary to implement enhanced security measures for all commercial flights to the United States. These measures, both seen and unseen, include enhanced screening of passengers and electronic devices as well as heightened security standards for aircraft and airports.
Countries: 105
Airports: 280 (approximate number as it will vary based on seasonal airports)
Total airlines: 180
Average daily flights: 2,100
Passengers: 325,000 average daily passengers
Enhanced Security Measures and Timeline
The enhanced security measures include but are not limited to:
Enhancing overall passenger screening;
Conducting heightened screening of personal electronic devices;
Increasing security protocols around aircraft and in passenger areas; and
Deploying advanced technology, expanding canine screening, and establishing additional preclearance locations.
Over the course of the next several weeks and months, DHS/TSA will work with aviation stakeholders to ensure these enhanced security measures are fully implemented. Those stakeholders who fail to adopt these requirements with certain timeframes run the risk of additional security restrictions being imposed.
International Flights Bound for the United States
These enhanced security measures will help to secure all commercial flights departing from 280 airports that serve as last points of departure to the United States.
Release Date: June 28, 2017
The United States and the global aviation community face an adaptive and agile enemy. Terrorist groups continue to target passenger aircraft, and we have seen a “spider web” of threats to commercial aviation as terrorist pursue new attack methods. Based on these concerns, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is working to raise the baseline of global aviation security to keep the traveling public safe, in coordination with our international partners.
Change to Global Aviation Security Requirements
In light of evaluated intelligence, Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly has determined it is necessary to implement enhanced security measures for all commercial flights to the United States. These measures, both seen and unseen, include enhanced screening of passengers and electronic devices as well as heightened security standards for aircraft and airports.
Countries: 105
Airports: 280 (approximate number as it will vary based on seasonal airports)
Total airlines: 180
Average daily flights: 2,100
Passengers: 325,000 average daily passengers
Enhanced Security Measures and Timeline
The enhanced security measures include but are not limited to:
Enhancing overall passenger screening;
Conducting heightened screening of personal electronic devices;
Increasing security protocols around aircraft and in passenger areas; and
Deploying advanced technology, expanding canine screening, and establishing additional preclearance locations.
Over the course of the next several weeks and months, DHS/TSA will work with aviation stakeholders to ensure these enhanced security measures are fully implemented. Those stakeholders who fail to adopt these requirements with certain timeframes run the risk of additional security restrictions being imposed.
International Flights Bound for the United States
These enhanced security measures will help to secure all commercial flights departing from 280 airports that serve as last points of departure to the United States.
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Fine but what does all that goobledy gook actually mean?
It doesn't give any guidance as to what they will or will not allow - am I supposed to wait until I arrive at security to find I have to hand over my laptop to be checked in at (say ) Theifrow?
It doesn't give any guidance as to what they will or will not allow - am I supposed to wait until I arrive at security to find I have to hand over my laptop to be checked in at (say ) Theifrow?