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AAIB investigation to Hawker Hunter T7 G-BXFI 22 August 2015

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AAIB investigation to Hawker Hunter T7 G-BXFI 22 August 2015

Old 20th Jun 2017, 18:59
  #821 (permalink)  
 
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Reportedy 25,000 documents assembled by the police, plus several hundred witness statements.

I'd be very surprised it if doesn't go to trial.
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Old 20th Jun 2017, 20:48
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Me too Dave. The difficult thing to speculate is who and on what charges, endangerment or criminal negligence.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Airbanda
Not certain there will be charges; CPS's job is to decide.
Correct. But for CPS to decide against the police recommendation there has to be good reason. Such reasons could be that prosecution would not be in public interest, or that the accused is unfit to stand trial, or that although a crime had been committed a jury would be unlikely to deliver a guilty verdict.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 13:46
  #824 (permalink)  
 
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25k documents that is a lot for the CPS to wade through and also if brought to trial, a lot for the defendants team too.

There are things in the report that seem to contradict themselves.
Such as 'the aircraft appeared to be responding to the pilots input' yet later on they state they can't see the pilots input with regard to the variations on the engine. Also,if the G meter wasn't working could the aircraft pulled more than the 3G it was restricted to. How did they test all the aircraft systems/structure as with all the damage incurred and would it be easy to find pre-accident problems among that lot.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 14:59
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Lot of people dead, lot of people involved and quite a lot of blame likely to be spread over numerous individuals and organisations going back a few years

All will have lawyers and "the right to reply and comment"
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 15:13
  #826 (permalink)  
 
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Hebog

The AAIB report is a distilled compilation of many reports from many authors, with information from multiple sources, that is why there are apparent discrepancies in different parts of the report when taken in isolation.

The general gist of the report is that there were no major faults with the aircraft that could have caused the accident, the aircraft appeared to respond as expected to control inputs that were directly visible inside and outside the aircraft, and that the subsequent crash was down to a failure to initiate a recovery manoeuvre coming off the top of the final loop.

Naturally the AAIB do not put it as bluntly as that because it is neither their job nor responsibility to assign blame, merely to establish the circumstances that gave rise to the crash in the interest of preventing another similar incident.

While we may have every sympathy with the victims of this incident, including the pilot, who was also equally a victim, only one of the victims can be considered to carry sole responsibility for what happened.

There will be extensive legal arguments over the precise sequence of events and where blame might lie, but from the details already published there is only one reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, pilot error.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 18:24
  #827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G0ULI
...but from the details already published there is only one reasonable conclusion that can be drawn, pilot error.

There isn't a criminal offence called "pilot error". The AAIB found a number of failings by other people and organisations. There could be enough evidence to charge some of these, subject to the CPS public interest etc, tests described above.


Who is charged and what they're charged with will be influenced by the Coroner's verdict.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 18:35
  #828 (permalink)  
 
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No, it won't.

There won't be any coroner's verdict for at least another year, the inquest isn't due to proceed until September 2018.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 19:06
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I would expect charges to be brought under the Health and Safety at Work Act. Even if it is judged that the display pilot made a handling error, it could be judged that the display organisers did not consult sufficiently with the display pilot about the exact details of his routine, and whether a risk assessment was properly done, including what risks may be incurred, and how they could be mitigated.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 20:07
  #830 (permalink)  
 
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At the second pre inquest review hearing on 20 June, the coroner set the date of the third pre inquest review for 24 January 2018 and indicated she would like the full hearing to commence in September 2018. She did also say that the inquest may be suspended if the police decide to bring criminal charges.
She also said to the families of the victims:
"I want to assure you I am satisfied that they are moving forward as quickly as they can in quite difficult circumstances and they are hoping to bring their investigation to a conclusion as quickly as possible."
According to press reports ( The Argus )Rebecca Smith an aviation lawyer with Irwin Mitchell, representing some of the families of the victims said " the crash was a disaster waiting to happen and one that appears could have been avoided."
Reading between the lines from all the above, it would seem to me that criminal charges are in store. It is just a matter of what the remaining 5% of the police investigation represents. My guess would be that it is some sort of evidence which is either to be yet obtained or considered before that too is submitted to the CPS. The chances are that the police and the CPS will wish to avoid the second anniversary passing without any apparent action with continuing uncertainty and lack of justice. Who was it that said
" justice must be swift, sure and must be seen to be done, or it`s not done at all ".
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 20:20
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Originally Posted by Chronus
Who was it that said " justice must be swift, sure and must be seen to be done, or it`s not done at all."
Judge Lynch, for one.
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Old 21st Jun 2017, 23:37
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Originally Posted by Chronus
...an aviation lawyer with Irwin Mitchell, representing some of the families of the victims said " the crash was a disaster waiting to happen and one that appears could have been avoided."...

I don't think anyone can disagree with that?
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 09:04
  #833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus
Who was it that said "justice must be swift, sure and must be seen to be done, or it`s not done at all".
Nick Herbert, in the preamble to the 2012 White Paper on proposed reforms to the CJS.
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 19:43
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"Justice should be swift"
So far the authorities have spent the best part of two years considering the available evidence in the case. This will not have been released to the lawyers who represent anybody who ends up being accused/charged. Let us hope that those representatives have an adequate if not similar period to consider such evidence and prepare their case.
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 19:47
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Lonewolf 50

Judge Lynch has said many things but I don't think she said that

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/judge-patricia-lynch-qc-you-re-a-bit-of-a-ct-yourself-swearing-judge-britains-sweariest-judge-a7185526.html
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 21:01
  #836 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf50 may be referring to Charles Lynch, mid18thC, Virginia, lynch law / lynching / judge Lynch attributed to him (quick Wiki research)
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 21:29
  #837 (permalink)  
 
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Are you suggesting that any parties who might be prosecuted are not already aware of what happened, what they did/didn't do and what their duty of care to the public was ?

I can't see any evidence that the prosecution is likely to disclose coming as a surprise to any defendant(s).
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 21:37
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They might not be aware of what they are accused of so have a right to prepare a defence just as with any other prosecution.
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Old 22nd Jun 2017, 22:42
  #839 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, that's how it works.

Of course no party has been charged with anything yet, but it seems likely (as previously referred to) that the situation will change between now and the second anniversary of the crash in August.

Time to prepare a defence is unlikely to be an issue - Crown Courts currently have such a huge backlog that a trial probably wouldn't start until 2018.
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Old 23rd Jun 2017, 01:51
  #840 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by daved123
Lonewolf50 may be referring to Charles Lynch, mid18thC, Virginia, lynch law / lynching / judge Lynch attributed to him (quick Wiki research)
Give that nice man a cigar.
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