Turkish Airlines cargo 747 crashes in Kyrgyzstan
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Herod,
Correct, it is possible to intercept a false lobe.
However, correct and false lobe will still have the same touchdown point.
You can intercept an ILS from above on B744 in a safe way. Let's face it, we all have have to do this from time to time. Doing it correctly though must be trained and demonstrated, and it potential dangers explained and shown. And remember: approach not safe and sound? GO AROUND.
Correct, it is possible to intercept a false lobe.
However, correct and false lobe will still have the same touchdown point.
You can intercept an ILS from above on B744 in a safe way. Let's face it, we all have have to do this from time to time. Doing it correctly though must be trained and demonstrated, and it potential dangers explained and shown. And remember: approach not safe and sound? GO AROUND.
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act700, I understand and agree with you up to a point. However, GA's are not all that frequent. So one may ponder whether said Captain had, in those 800 hours on the B744, ever experienced a GA and (again specifically on the B744) what sort of training for such an event had the airline given him?
Before detailing the results of the survey, the BEA estimated the number of go-arounds performed by a pilot during his/her career, based on the figures communicated by Air France and those supplied by the main European airports. In general, these showed:
� Between 2 and 4 go-arounds per one thousand flights are recorded each year
� A medium-haul flight crew performs on average one go-around a year
� A long-haul flight crew performs on average one go-around every 5 to 10 years."
https://www.bea.aero/etudes/asaga/asaga.study.pdf
Last edited by CaptainMongo; 17th Jan 2017 at 22:08.
And remember: approach not safe and sound? GO AROUND.
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False Glideslope
Not suggesting this was the cause of this accident, however mention of glideslope capture from above rattled around in my brain recalling a safety warning published a couple of years ago which I have managed to find: Unexpected autopilot behaviour on ILS approach when intercepting the glide path from above based on a 2013 event at Eindhoven ( Pitch Up Upsets due to ILS false Glide Slopes ).
Both worth a read.
Both worth a read.
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Hotel Tango, again, I do not buy or accept that line of reasoning! If you are qualified on type, irregardless of hours, you should be able to perform any normal maneuver on that type.
"act700, I understand and agree with you up to a point. However, GA's are not all that frequent. So one may ponder whether said Captain had, in those 800 hours on the B744, ever experienced a GA and (again specifically on the B744) what sort of training for such an event had the airline given him"
"act700, I understand and agree with you up to a point. However, GA's are not all that frequent. So one may ponder whether said Captain had, in those 800 hours on the B744, ever experienced a GA and (again specifically on the B744) what sort of training for such an event had the airline given him"
Captainmongo:----
Ok but we do maybe 6 or more missed approaches/go arounds from various situations each year in the Simulator under varying conditions. We have done for 20 years now so I'd suggest that over that time I've done 120 in the Sim and maybe another 15 in the actual Aircraft.
Ok but we do maybe 6 or more missed approaches/go arounds from various situations each year in the Simulator under varying conditions. We have done for 20 years now so I'd suggest that over that time I've done 120 in the Sim and maybe another 15 in the actual Aircraft.
Is it possible they decided to throw away the approach at a height of around 2000ft, by arresting the descent, but somehow the auto throttle didn't wake up? Would that explain the 'long drift' down the runway and, having run out of airspeed, result in a stall and crash?
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If they were attempting an auto land, according to the post contributions their speed should have been circa 150/160 kts but one post commented according to "data" their speed was 185kts? What would be their GA performance at known weight with anti ice ON?
The aforementioned data doesn't include either TAS or IAS. Groundspeed over the threshold was around 176 kts, surface wind negligible.
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Don't forget your roots, all you xx-thousand hour gods...you too were 'low time on type' at some point...and somehow it all worked out, right?
I just don't buy this argument-besides, 800+ on type is more than enough to know one's way around.
But none of that really matters until some competent authority hints at what went wrong here.
Holy crap, I haven't been on here in forever!! Do I not have a life anymore??
I just don't buy this argument-besides, 800+ on type is more than enough to know one's way around.
But none of that really matters until some competent authority hints at what went wrong here.
Holy crap, I haven't been on here in forever!! Do I not have a life anymore??
Could not agree more.
Is it possible they decided to throw away the approach at a height of around 2000ft, by arresting the descent, but somehow the auto throttle didn't wake up? Would that explain the 'long drift' down the runway and, having run out of airspeed, result in a stall and crash?
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If you are qualified on type, irregardless of hours, you should be able to perform any normal maneuver on that type.
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Kulverstukas
Your contributions are always excellent. However, in this case my Russian skills fail me.
Could you please specify exactly what the above chart is supposed to be? I have my suspicions but dare not show my ignorance about these things....
Your contributions are always excellent. However, in this case my Russian skills fail me.
Could you please specify exactly what the above chart is supposed to be? I have my suspicions but dare not show my ignorance about these things....
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It's the damage zone on the blueprint of this tiny house village. Violet means buildings on this patch are damaged (and with cut-off roofs), red - totally destroyed.
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Thanks as always Kulverstukas.
Looks like the approach pictured above is to runway 8. You can see the striped building with the marker beacon antenna in the foreground, it was in one of your earlier photos of the wreckage.
Looks like the approach pictured above is to runway 8. You can see the striped building with the marker beacon antenna in the foreground, it was in one of your earlier photos of the wreckage.
PS: Grim pun is that this village name is "Aeroflot garden-house community"
I don't want to derail this important thread, but I've travelled widely in the FSU, though not to Bishkek. I've never heard of such a community before. Does this suggest that the people in this community worked at the airport?
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