Jet goes down on its way to Medellin, Colombia
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 76
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do though wonder what the theoretical glide performance of this particular aircraft, in the given circumstances would have been.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
battery maintenance
twincommander, I can only concur with your comments. Earlier in the thread someone posted a list of instruments that would still be available after generator loss. I'm unclear if that was for a 146 or an RJ now. Losing all your EFIS in an RJ would be a scary event, especially at night.
Last edited by Design Engineer; 30th Nov 2016 at 19:50. Reason: addition of night conditions
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: France
Age: 63
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC is now reporting that the plane ran out of fuel: Chapecoense air crash: Leaked tape shows plane 'ran out of fuel' - BBC News
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The British press are still reporting that the flight was from São Paulo to Medellin via Santa Cruz with Lamia but other agencies are saying the leg to Bolivia was a commercial flight. Lamia had been refused by the Brazilian aviation authorities as it was not registered. Somebody in Brazil was keen that the team used Lamia come what may. This stinks of backhanders and commissions . What a tragedy for those innocent people
Some simple maths:
Total fuel 9360kg
Minus fixed reserve of 900kg gives
8460kg
Taxi/takeoff/climb first hour 3000kg gives
5460kg
5460kg/2200 per hour burn gives 2.48 hours.
1+2.48 = 3.48 hrs @ 380ktas equals
1322nm range nil wind with no variable reserve.
This is somewhat less than the reported 1600nm sector.
I rest my case.
Total fuel 9360kg
Minus fixed reserve of 900kg gives
8460kg
Taxi/takeoff/climb first hour 3000kg gives
5460kg
5460kg/2200 per hour burn gives 2.48 hours.
1+2.48 = 3.48 hrs @ 380ktas equals
1322nm range nil wind with no variable reserve.
This is somewhat less than the reported 1600nm sector.
I rest my case.
Afterthought, having now read the BBC article:
Moments before the flight took off, Mauro Stumpf from the team's coaching staff said he hoped the airline brought them "good luck" - as when the team flew with the same company for the quarter-finals.
He may not have realized that someone in that company was relying on good luck for this flight to get them there ...
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Easter Island
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The investigation will no doubt reveal when the batteries were last serviced or replaced for this aircraft. You would expect essential or emergency buss power to be maintained for a decent interval after all-engine flameout... and not for the transponder, navaids to 'go dark' so quickly.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"From what I understand, there was going to be a stop in Cobija. But the plane that was bringing the players from Chapecoense to Bolivia was delayed. As a result, they couldn't land in Cobija, there are no night operations at Cobija, in fact there are no lights on the runway. So they decided to fill the tank completely, with fuel. In addition to that, the players had to train. It would have been enough to get there, but they were forced to wait which used up all the fuel.
They took the decision to fill the tank completely, which isn't something they usually do but it would have been possible to land, considering they were only 17 miles from the airport, about 3 to 5 minutes. Being in holding traffic is what ended up using all the fuel that was left. However, we have to await the analysis of the black boxes to find out, for certain, what really happened."
Said the son of the co-pilot, who is in his last year of training to be a pilot.
They took the decision to fill the tank completely, which isn't something they usually do but it would have been possible to land, considering they were only 17 miles from the airport, about 3 to 5 minutes. Being in holding traffic is what ended up using all the fuel that was left. However, we have to await the analysis of the black boxes to find out, for certain, what really happened."
Said the son of the co-pilot, who is in his last year of training to be a pilot.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sidestick n Rudder
Yup, been shown this 'clever trick' by some morons early in my career, when flying for a somewhat shady charter operator. However, it's not clever and, in fact, not legal. If you re-dispatch in the air (which the above in-fact is), you are still supposed to have alternate, final reserve AND contingency fuel for the remainder of the flight.
Properly done, re-dispatch can save a couple of kg's and possibly prevent a fuel stop on the way, but it is not a license to operate without adequate reserves...
Properly done, re-dispatch can save a couple of kg's and possibly prevent a fuel stop on the way, but it is not a license to operate without adequate reserves...
It is not a shady practice and is written into most EASA Ops Manuals. The entire amount of Contingency fuel may be used at the Captain's discretion any time after dispatch.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With English translation
Apologies if already posted
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=6Ab5x_C-CFg
Apologies if already posted
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=6Ab5x_C-CFg
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Easter Island
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Easter Island
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fact that this is being transmitted from the stricken plane means that some electrical systems were still available, running on battery power with the aircraft in the descent, in the glide. On this occasion the glide did not work out for these most unfortunate people.
I do though wonder what the theoretical glide performance of this particular aircraft, in the given circumstances would have been.
I do though wonder what the theoretical glide performance of this particular aircraft, in the given circumstances would have been.
Total fuel 9360kg
Minus fixed reserve of 900kg gives
8460kg
Taxi/takeoff/climb first hour 3000kg gives
5460kg
5460kg/2200 per hour burn gives 2.48 hours.
1+2.48 = 3.48 hrs @ 380ktas equals
1322nm range nil wind with no variable reserve.
This is somewhat less than the reported 1600nm sector.
Minus fixed reserve of 900kg gives
8460kg
Taxi/takeoff/climb first hour 3000kg gives
5460kg
5460kg/2200 per hour burn gives 2.48 hours.
1+2.48 = 3.48 hrs @ 380ktas equals
1322nm range nil wind with no variable reserve.
This is somewhat less than the reported 1600nm sector.
Now just to play devil's advocate: if forecast winds aloft are 70-90 knots tail wind component at planned FL, you can see how someone might talk themselves into figuring that they can make it. I prefer your approach, however.
Later Edit: I did a little poking about at some met sites, and from what I found, a tail wind approaching that value was not available for that night's flight. Maybe that was a bad example of how one might talk one's self into making this a one leg flight.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 30th Nov 2016 at 21:09.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They took the decision to fill the tank completely, which isn't something they usually do but it would have been possible to land, considering they were only 17 miles from the airport, about 3 to 5 minutes. Being in holding traffic is what ended up using all the fuel that was left. However, we have to await the analysis of the black boxes to find out, for certain, what really happened."
Said the son of the co-pilot, who is in his last year of training to be a pilot.
Said the son of the co-pilot, who is in his last year of training to be a pilot.
So referring to it as a BAe 146 is not unreasonable.