Jet goes down on its way to Medellin, Colombia

[IanWorthington]

Originally Posted by GearDown&Locked

Translation (until a better one comes up):

Adriaan at Colombia Reports, Colombia News | Colombia Reports, is working on it now.

[dmba]

The female crew who survived has been quoted as saying that the lights inside the aircraft began to turn off gradually in the 50 seconds before impact.

The male crew who survived has said he remained in the fetal position after gathering bags to place in between his legs.

[RAT 5]

What's the nav kit on this a/c? What works from the battery? No fuel = no Gens or APU. 19000' and not on radar? Hm?

[dmba]

Video from helicopter showing a bit more detail of location of debris.
Filmagem de helicóptero mostra que avião da Chape colidiu durante queda

[RiSq]

The more I read about this incident....the less it becomes a case of "Holes in the cheese" - more a case of one big hole of failiures.

1. The Range / Fuel issue. Seems a case of "Got away with it twice, but not thrice" - Ultimately, previous attempts did not involve holding.

2. Why the delay in announcing a fuel starvation issue? Why not announce an emergency immediately - Those crucial minutes could of changed everything?

3. Why the urge to "Get down" and have the gear down, causing drag? Obviously we don't have an accurate timeline...but the "gear down" seems to be early. I would of thought in a fuel starved situation this would be the least of your concerns - in fact, unless approaching an airfield, would gear up not have been preferred for a terrain landing? Also - at the height they were - surely Altitude buys you time to calculate and plan. Once it's gone, you aren't getting it back.

Also - someone familiar on type. Surely this issue presented itself over a period of time - so alarm bells should have been ringing. I cannot imagine all 4 engines having a simultanious flame out? So is there actually a possibility that the crew, knowing they were marginal, ignored the fact one (Some) of the engines were shutdown?

It reads like the worst chain of events in aviation I have seen in a long time. Not only that, it seems that fate gave them multiple bites at the cherry to "Save" the situation and at each and every step, the obvious was not done.

[GearDown&Locked]

Originally Posted by RAT 5

What's the nav kit on this a/c? What works from the battery? No fuel = no Gens or APU. 19000' and not on radar? Hm?

Avianca 9256 was holding initially at 21.000 ft then descended to 19.000ft, and the RJ85 was already above them.

From what I understood from the Avianca pilot, ATC lost radar contact after they had left their holding position.

[dsc810]

@RiSq
Re your item 2
read post #158 for the most probable explanation of why he did not want to declare an emergency and thereby attract unwanted official interest in the goings on.

[RiSq]

@Dsc810 - I cannot fathom that, I really cannot - but it basically confirms my other belief - there were mutliple points to turn this situation around. It's absolutely disgusting that, even with the facts in front of him - no fuel, Emergency....he neglected to inform ATC, which ultimately, would of prioritised them. I'd face the consequences of my abysmal actions rather than risk the lives of my PAX - actually, I wouldn't have to as I would not put anyones life at risk to begin with, if I were a Professional Pilot.

I'm not sure if it was Arrogance or stupidity (We will hopefully find out) - but ultimately, it killed (nearly) all of them.

I would normally refrain from such comments, but this looks like it literally is as simple as it first appears. God almighty, I hope I am wrong as ultimately, it makes it more redeemable.

[GearDown&Locked]

Question :
When the ATCO called them at 9.000 ft 8 miles out, would this Alt be AGL or MSL?

[20milesout]

RiSq:

It reads like the worst chain of events in aviation I have seen in a long time. Not only that, it seems that fate gave them multiple bites at the cherry to "Save" the situation and at each and every step, the obvious was not done.

Sadly some people rather die than admit to a mistake.

[portmanteau]

Ian w/liveryman: the pic didnt choose to hold, he was instructed to by atc. the fact that he followed the instruction suggests to me that he was unaware of any problem other than electrical, at that time.

[IcePack]

I hope should this be a fuel issue that it brings "food for thought" to those Airlines that quite legally use the other runway at an airfield as the diversion. (not in this case) A lot of the lessons learnt in the past have now been forgotten. "oh that won't happen" often quoted, but as the legal limits become tighter, the illegal ones become very tight.

[dmba]

Audio (in spanish)
"Falha total": áudio mostra piloto do avião da Chape insistindo para pousar

[Design Engineer]

Interesting stories about LAMIA

Not immediately relevant to this accident per se but I came across this article during my online wanderings ...... https://panampost.com/sabrina-martin...amia-airlines/

[patowalker]

No wonder LMI 2933 didn't land at Cobija for fuel: the airport has no lighting.

[alemaobaiano]

Normal procedures for landing significantly below minimum fuel in this part of the world is that the aircraft would be impounded pending an investigation, the flight deck crew would be grounded for the duration, if not actually imprisoned, and the company operating certificate would be temporarily suspended. The most likely outcome after a few months would be a massive fine.

Why might that be relevant? Lamia operated a single aircraft, the captain was also the owner of the company, and the company was short of funds and looking for investors. Not a good situation at all.

There have been a number of folks asking why a number of clubs and national teams used this operator. Quite simply they were "recommended" by Conmebol, the South American federation.

[ATC Watcher]

When the ATCO called them at 9.000 ft 8 miles out, would this Alt be AGL or MSL?

MSL of course. I guess ( only guess at this stage) and she lost him because of terrain filters on the radar.
Medelin MDE elevation is 7000 ft, so 9000ft 8 miles out , with no power even on flat ground, no chances anyway. ( there are 10.000ft peaks in the area. )

Edit : Just listened to the R/T posted,
the last transmission was :" 9 mil pés, senhorita. Vectores,, vectores." ( 9000ft Miss, Vectors, vectors ..) so the pilot gave the Alt , not the controller it was apparently not visible on the Secondary radar.

[alemaobaiano]

Ian w/liveryman: the pic didnt choose to hold, he was instructed to by atc. the fact that he followed the instruction suggests to me that he was unaware of any problem other than electrical, at that time.

He hadn't reported any problem up to that point, the electrical failure came after he started an unauthorized descent, and after he told ATC about his fuel situation, according to the more reliable news sources here.

[peekay4]

If the weather forecast is well above limits and two completely separate suitable runways are available what's wrong with planning that as your diversion runway, and adding a bit of holding fuel on top?

The problem is that the intended airport may close for reasons other than weather. Security situations, accidents, fires, ATC or NAV/COM issues, natural disasters, etc.

So it's a good idea to always have enough fuel to reach an alternate airport, plus reserves, even if not required by regulations.

[meekmok]

From the helicopter video footage, it looks like it crashed right next to the Rionegro VOR. Could he of been trying to (steeply) descend to that VOR, thinking it was at the end of the runway (KAL801)?