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Jet goes down on its way to Medellin, Colombia

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Jet goes down on its way to Medellin, Colombia

Old 28th Apr 2018, 12:12
  #1081 (permalink)  
 
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COL-16-37-GIA
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 14:05
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
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Will there be one in English?
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 14:13
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Aviation Herald has an English translation of key parts: Crash: LAMIA Bolivia RJ85 near Medellin on Nov 28th 2016, electrical problems, no fuel, impact with terrain
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 16:39
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Thank you!
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 22:00
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Thanks for posting the translation. I don't really see much here we didn't already know or suspect before. Nevertheless, it's a damning report that shows what messed up deal this was. An entire city in Brazil and much of the rest of the country will weep for years over an incident caused by pure malfeasance. I know this carrier was shut down, but does anyone know what the regulatory response has been to step up the game of similar operators?
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 22:59
  #1086 (permalink)  

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Agree, nothing new.
These guys did not load enough fuel for the trip.
Either they had no common sense or they were lacking IQ.
This here flying business is really easy: Follow the rules, use your head and be conservative.
i worked for 19 outfits all over the world, including South America. One of my F/Os told me he was forced to fly with 20,000 lbs over weight for a Peruvian carrier on the DC-8. Otherwise you are fired..
Also macho mentality loading less than minimum fuel: Oops, missing airplane, lost in space from SXM to STX. At least the pilot was a brave macho Latino but no common sense, no nothing.
I trained pilots down there but you can’t teach responsibility or common sense.
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 23:24
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Originally Posted by Carbon Bootprint View Post
Thanks for posting the translation. I don't really see much here we didn't already know or suspect before. Nevertheless, it's a damning report that shows what messed up deal this was. An entire city in Brazil and much of the rest of the country will weep for years over an incident caused by pure malfeasance. I know this carrier was shut down, but does anyone know what the regulatory response has been to step up the game of similar operators?
Because of the lack of the CVR for a long time before the crash, there was not much more to learn beyond what we knew the first few weeks.

I think of the CVR breaker being pulled, but that is not mentioned in the report. Surely, the breakers were documented since there was no fire.
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 23:53
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Quote:
" These guys did not load enough fuel for the trip....Also macho mentality loading less than minimum fuel."

If I recall correctly the tanks were full. The mission was at or beyond range of aircraft. And they had an ATC hold. That sealed the fate.
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Old 29th Apr 2018, 00:52
  #1089 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by jack11111 View Post
Quote:
" These guys did not load enough fuel for the trip....Also macho mentality loading less than minimum fuel."

If I recall correctly the tanks were full. The mission was at or beyond range of aircraft. And they had an ATC hold. That sealed the fate.
Duh....
Yes of course the tanks were full, but not enough fuel for the mission.
The whole operation was criminal and amateurish at the same time.
ATC hold being a factor.. ?
No, just the last nail in the coffin.

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Old 29th Apr 2018, 00:53
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I suspect being full flaps and gear down very early didnt do much for their gliding range and options.
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Old 29th Apr 2018, 04:56
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ATC hold being a factor.. ?
No, just the last nail in the coffin.
Respectfully, the "last nail in the coffin" was refusing to disclose true fuel situation to ATC when might still have mattered.

Surely would have received priority over the other aircraft. Except that would have required admitting they had grossly insufficient fuel, have triggered an investigation, resulting in loss of contracts and probably other serious consequences. Especially given the pax on that flight, and the publicity it would have garnered.

Perhaps an even later "nail in the coffin" was when they "drop[ped] all the anchors" (so to speak) in an effort to descend rapidly to reach the glideslope (the one for 'powered' planes, not gliders). Flaps 18, reduced thrust, extended speedbrakes, lowered landing gear, then set flaps 24 and eventually 33.

When they actually needed to maintain as much altitude and energy as possible to cross the high ridges they were approaching on the path to the runway. They did the opposite, and thus impacted near the top of the ridge. Game over.

Last edited by Passenger 389; 29th Apr 2018 at 05:11. Reason: add later "nail in the coffin"
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Old 10th Aug 2018, 19:02
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English final report :
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Old 10th Aug 2018, 21:16
  #1093 (permalink)  
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Nico, thank you, I've inserted the link so that it properly opens.
To all and sundry: let us please discuss this with professionalism foremost in our deliberations.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 02:44
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Lowest fuel flow and best glide performance is achieved by remaining 'clean' as long as possible. Flying 101.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 05:09
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Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
Lowest fuel flow and best glide performance is achieved by remaining 'clean' as long as possible. Flying 101.
Yeah, based on book figures, they were within gliding distance of the runway when they ran out of fuel.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 07:08
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Originally Posted by AerocatS2A View Post
Yeah, based on book figures, they were within gliding distance of the runway when they ran out of fuel.
I muss say this is one of the craziest one for quite some time. And thinking that they could make it despite all is just mind-boggling.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 16:16
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I really find it hard to believe that suicide has yet to be mentioned in this, I do not mean to say that he took off with the intention of dying, in the sense of Lubnitz. However, it is very possible that his planning had the intention of death should his fuel planning strategy not work it (as we know... it did not work out). The final act of flaps down, gear down and nose down, as not the actions of anybody that wants to live after losing all power. The Captain would have known that the likely outcome of reaching the airport would have been an arrest, closure of his business, prison and bankruptcy for his family. Compare that to the out come of his death, being, no prison, possible obfiscation of the facts, the company survivng (he wasn`t to know that we would all know the truth in numbers) and a hefty insurance payout...

... Has this crossed anybody else's mind?
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 19:55
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... Has this crossed anybody else's mind?
I consider it more like playing Russian Roulette with the 70+ lives.
As for the aircraft being 'dirty' after the engines quit, I suspect the pilots were still hoping there was some fuel in the tanks and they'd make it right up to the point the engines cut out. Once you've lost all four engines, it's really too late to clean up the aircraft.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 08:53
  #1099 (permalink)  
 
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not a good read sadly -

beggars belief that a 146 could even be imagined for planning (or the lack of, as shown here) for almost a 4 hour sector with 77 folk on board - that's like sending an almost full 146 from LGW non-stop to the Greek Islands !

incredible that it almost made it - had they not held in the hold but had opted to declare a fuel emergency and go straight in then this would likely not have happened although landing on fumes could be expected

I am sure this was not their (any of the crews) intention to commit suicide but the plan to commit to destination (despite cockpit discussions early on in the flight about fuel burn and status) was suicidal

what on earth possessed the crew to continue this flight to its ghastly end
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