Jet goes down on its way to Medellin, Colombia
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Pilot Error?
The real question here is that the pilot had altitude, speed, wind, pressure, distance to r/w and no power, and lacked the necessary skills to fly the aircraft until a safe landing. Coulda and shoulda made it. Sorry if this sounds harsh.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Interesting development....
Allegedly Celia has sought "refuge" in Brazil. So I guess she managed to slip across the border unnoticed and is going to claim asylum
Allegedly Celia has sought "refuge" in Brazil. So I guess she managed to slip across the border unnoticed and is going to claim asylum
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oense-disaster
"............Earlier on Tuesday, Bolivia demanded Brazil expel a Bolivian air traffic controller who travelled there to give authorities information about the crash.
The Bolivian interior minister Carlos Romero said Celia Castedo had illegally bypassed migration controls on her way out of the country in an attempt to flee justice. He said Castedo was being sought as part of a broad investigation into Bolivia’s air travel authority after the 28 November crash. “There is no argument to justify an asylum request,” Romero said. “Logically, in a case like this there should be a process of automatic expulsion [from Brazil].”
Federal prosecutors in Brazil said late on Monday that the woman had come to them in the border city of Corumba after the Bolivian air travel authority accused her of negligence. Brazilian TV station Globo reported Castedo was seeking asylum in Brazil and that she had questioned a flight plan showing the intended route would push the limits of the plane’s maximum possible flight time..........."
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The folks at CONMEBOL seem not to have minded working with this outfit. 
Due diligence: how does one say that in Spanish?
Corporate culture / company culture / command culture: how does one graph that for this company, and will the investigators make an attempt to do that?
Due diligence: how does one say that in Spanish? Corporate culture / company culture / command culture: how does one graph that for this company, and will the investigators make an attempt to do that?
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I was thinking about contributory factors and it seems to me that football team are not average passengers. They travel with a lot of baggage, and journalist equipment was also on board. What if the plane was heavier than usual? Within legal regulation but enough to eat that10 minutes they was hoping for.
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I was thinking about contributory factors and it seems to me that football team are not average passengers. They travel with a lot of baggage, and journalist equipment was also on board. What if the plane was heavier than usual? Within legal regulation but enough to eat that10 minutes they was hoping for.
1. Main factor:
The flight was planned with insufficient fuel for the flight in violation of ICAO and national regulations;
2. Contributing factors:
a. the PIC failed to declare fuel emergency when it became apparent that the fuel was below the established minimuns. Mayday was never heard;
b. After the flame-out, the crew did not possess the skill to glide the plane to the airport.
The investigation may unearth additional causes. But, discounting an attempt at a cover-up, it would be extremely surprising if it came out with something substantively different from the above.
Last edited by marie paire; 7th Dec 2016 at 07:03. Reason: spelling
I used to work for a Premier League club. Charters were used all the time for prayers and officials, kit was usually sent separately, usually by road in the UK - no time pressure to get the kit there and back, but a need to move the players there and back ASAP for sporting reasons (maximise training and recovery time at base in a crowded fixture list).
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The engines have feeder tanks allowing them to run some time after tanks are dry. Doesn't the APU have a feeder tank? Wouldn't that have given them a couple of minutes at least? Does the APU auto start when all engines die? I can imagine it must have been very dark all of a sudden (well, they could have expected it..)
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@marie paire,
Are you a new mod on the thread?
PashaF was writing about contributory factors, and quite reasonably IMO. The extra load would have required more fuel.
Please stop throwing red herrings into the equation!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PashaF View Post
I was thinking about contributory factors and it seems to me that football team are not average passengers. They travel with a lot of baggage, and journalist equipment was also on board. What if the plane was heavier than usual? Within legal regulation but enough to eat that10 minutes they was hoping for.
Originally Posted by PashaF View Post
I was thinking about contributory factors and it seems to me that football team are not average passengers. They travel with a lot of baggage, and journalist equipment was also on board. What if the plane was heavier than usual? Within legal regulation but enough to eat that10 minutes they was hoping for.
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Pardon me for a really dumb question from a non pilot, but how did this outfit get insurance? With two planes in hock for nonpayment of maintenance, an outstanding arrest warrant, and a very low balance sheet this would look like a commercial operation that would be extremely high risk. I assume that you cannot take off with passengers for hire without current insurance, even in Bolivia or am I missing something?
( He was suspended on the same day as Celia Monasterio from Aasana.)
Whilst Vargas Senior has been arrested on Tuesday, he is claiming he resigned due to pesonal reasons, three days prior to the crash. ( He has a notarised letter that has been published in the media.)
I expect Rocha (third LaMia owner-pilot) will be arrested next. The South American journalists have unearthed a photo which shows he co-piloted the Argentine national team in November, the controversial flight that's also been discussed in all the press.żImprudencia extrema? El vuelo de Lamia de la selección habría llegado con lo justo | Mundo D
As for insurance, it's been mooted in the press, that in reality they never had valid insurance for international operation. This link details the financial irregularities that journalists have found in the last couple of days.
LaMia operaba con un patrimonio de Bs 114.953 | Noticias de Bolivia y el Mundo - EL DEBER
Meanwhile "flight technician" Erwin Tumiri still can't accept the crash was due to lack of fuel and believes it to be faulty APU.
Tumiri hace nuevas revelaciones y funcionaria busca asilo: LaMia | Diario Correo del Sur: Noticias de Sucre, Bolivia y el Mundo
Note well, there was an additional flight engineer on board, Angel Lugo, (técnico venezolano) as well as the Paraguayan pilot Gustavo Encina. ( Posters asked after the crash, why the crew totalled 9.........)
Hence my use of "not often", though I can't think of many European cities that are more than a 4 hour direct flight from the UK.
And a 4-hour flight equates to 2-3 days on the road, so the OP's point is valid - IMHO it's likely that the team's kit was also travelling on the flight.
And a 4-hour flight equates to 2-3 days on the road, so the OP's point is valid - IMHO it's likely that the team's kit was also travelling on the flight.
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It would be interesting to see the Loadsheet for the flight in question.
I'm surprised it hasn't surfaced yet. Maybe, it will only be revealed in the official report.
I'm surprised it hasn't surfaced yet. Maybe, it will only be revealed in the official report.
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Failing instruments, dark and in IMC, lack of exact position knowledge, high elev airport with even higher surroundings, very likely lack of any crew management with dreadful authority gradients, the anxiety once they realized they had made a terrible mistake, the list of those items goes on and on.
Even with 23500 hours I would never say I could have saved the day from there on. Yes, in hindsight and from the couch it can be done, as sim reruns with a pre-warned crew will prove in the future.
The story evolves as one big scam with more than only the crew involved.
For me the most interesting part stops at the flame-out. Their fate was signed at that moment for 99,9%, it would require an expert and trained crew, or a fuel tank of luck to get more or less alive out of it.
How in the world they got themselves in that situation is the main question, not the fatal emergency descent/landing.
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Hence my use of "not often", though I can't think of many European cities that are more than a 4 hour direct flight from the UK.
And a 4-hour flight equates to 2-3 days on the road, so the OP's point is valid - IMHO it's likely that the team's kit was also travelling on the flight.
And a 4-hour flight equates to 2-3 days on the road, so the OP's point is valid - IMHO it's likely that the team's kit was also travelling on the flight.
Failing instruments, dark and in IMC, lack of exact position knowledge, high elev airport with even higher surroundings, very likely lack of any crew management with dreadful authority gradients, the anxiety once they realized they had made a terrible mistake, the list of those items goes on and on.
Even with 23500 hours I would never say I could have saved the day from there on
Even with 23500 hours I would never say I could have saved the day from there on
The route cause of the fatalities isn't the lack at an attempt at an engine out apporach.