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China Southern A380 Prang LAX

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China Southern A380 Prang LAX

Old 11th Nov 2016, 08:03
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China Southern A380 Prang LAX

This popped up on my Facebook feed. No idea what happened, looks like they were in too much of a hurry.

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Old 11th Nov 2016, 08:51
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This picture just raises a thousand questions. Without more information nobody can make any assumptions.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 09:35
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I've heard several times in YMML ATC begging the crew to look out the window and wave off the ground crew who were trying to show the pin. Depending on location ATC can't issue a taxi clearance until the Tug reports clear, the Tug couldn't report clear until the wave off.

The cockpit crew just didn't get it and they sat there for 5 mins until they worked it out.

Obviously they would have happily taxied off without checking the ground crew were clear......luckily YMML local procedures saved the day........now in LAX?

Obviously they don't always look outside......
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 10:43
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Why would you look outside? All instrument panels are in front of you.
And besides, why such a hurry? Perhaps they were trying to save 20 seconds on a 13 hour flight. Kudo's!
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 11:00
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Why would you look outside? All instrument panels are in front of you.
I trust that is tongue-in-cheek fox niner. Otherwise you shouldn't be posting on here!

Lots of possible scenarios, so you may all be jumping to the wrong conclusions!
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 11:55
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 14:22
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A4

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When I'm Line Training new guys I always emphasise - DON'T run the afterstart checklist until you have seen the tug, tow bar and man with the pin cross the line back onto stand......what IS the hurry with some people. You could kill someone so easily.....
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 14:43
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From the link above "China Southern Airlines Airbus A380 (B-6139) #CZ328 damaged by tug at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX)."

I'd say it should read "Tug destroyed by China Southern Airways Airbus A380 at......"
Poor little tug, I'd say thats a write-off.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 15:01
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Originally Posted by A4 View Post
When I'm Line Training new guys I always emphasise - DON'T run the afterstart checklist until you have seen the tug, tow bar and man with the pin cross the line back onto stand......what IS the hurry with some people. You could kill someone so easily.....
Wise advice.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 16:23
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A4,

I would have thought that was part of Normal Procedures and SOP's in most airlines...
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 16:35
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no reason to wait for the after start checklist.

Just don't ask for taxi before you receive the hand signal
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 17:12
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It was meant to be ironic, naturally.
At my outfit we MUST have the all clear signal first, and after that, we can ask for the takeoff flaps to be set and the before taxi checklist. No way that we can simply start taxiing.
I hope they are able to review and amend their procedures, without firing everyone on the spot. Please, LEARN from your mishaps, and improve your SOP without blaming anyone.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 17:16
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"With over 20 years of airline service, xxx's tractors are
proven performers. The GT-110 is the largest tractor available
and it is the ideal tractor to handle pushback and towing
requirements for all wide-body aircraft (except A380)"

...so speaks the tractor mfr's brochure
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 17:41
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A4

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@springbok449

Yes, you'd think so but so often you see aircraft calling for taxi whilst the ground crew are still unhitching the tow bar or still under the aircraft.

I'm sure a large UK airline had an incident a few years ago where the "lifter" tug broke down infront of the No2 engine after disconnection.....dark, not clear, taxied and dragged the engine over the stranded tug lifter arms - ouch!

If you see them all clear, over the line....it won't happen. Simples!!

@Arewerunning

no reason to wait for the after start checklist.
I humbly disagree - one thing at a time - doing the checklist is a distractor. Nothing wrong with after start items/actions (flaps, trim etc) as they are coincident with the ground crew disconnecting everything downstairs - but wait until everyone is clear, then the after start checks and then taxi........K.I.S (Keep It Safe)
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 19:43
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sorry, but I do not see the point. Why wait for the hand signal before doing the checklist???? You do the checklist (you are not moving and the park brake is set) then, AFTER you receive the hand signal you request taxi.

I do not see any benefit whatsoever to wait for the hand signal before performing the after start checklist...

Aren't we making simple things too difficult? It's like in my Orange outfit where even trainers in their briefing at LGW they say Traffic and Radio congestion is a threat! I mean, what the hell.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 20:26
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When I'm Line Training new guys I always emphasise - DON'T run the afterstart checklist until you have seen the tug, tow bar and man with the pin cross the line back onto stand..
(or at least to a point clear of the aircraft).
There are still airlines where this is not s.o.p? It will be, after they have their first incident. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 21:34
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Narrow bus OEM SOPs:
SMdk.png

Next item on the workflow sheet? You've guessed it: AFTER START CHECK ... COMPLETE.

That being said, I've worked for an airline where this had become "evidence based" SOP on B737 but later lost in woodwork when A320 took over. Someone spotted the above paragraph years later and beat us all over the head with the incident reports of bygone era. Live and learn.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 21:51
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Ahh, so now I know why I have to sit at the gate and wait while it takes forever for the blocking aircraft to move out of the way.
After start check list comes.....after start in my airline. And in my previous airlines.
No taxi request before I get the clear signal from the ground crew.
Works for me.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 21:53
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Interesting that everyone has jumped to the conclusion that the crew taxied the aircraft. But, are you absolutely certain of it's position? It looks to me as if it might have been parked on 159, in which case you're not going to be started until pulled forward to roughly abeam 156.

Ground equipment is part of the after start checklist...plus there's a camera.
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Old 11th Nov 2016, 21:56
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Only half a speed-brake
 
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If only those 9 seconds could relieve you of the agony ...
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