China Southern A380 Prang LAX
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Downunder
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry to continue the drift but, I am still looking for a rationale answer to the question: "what added safety provides to initiate the after start checklist only after the clear signal from the ground crew instead of doing the after start checklist, wait for the clear signal and then ask for taxi clearance? "
I mean, is it so difficult to give an easy explanation? I know plenty of airlines (none of them brits, but that is another matter entirely) that do and off course writes in FCOM and OM B exactly the latest and works like a charm.
it's interesting that nobody seems to be patient enough to bring forward a simple explanation on this specific point.
I mean, is it so difficult to give an easy explanation? I know plenty of airlines (none of them brits, but that is another matter entirely) that do and off course writes in FCOM and OM B exactly the latest and works like a charm.
it's interesting that nobody seems to be patient enough to bring forward a simple explanation on this specific point.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the pictures it looks to me as if the tow-bar is still connected.
Perhaps it was overloaded by a combination of having the engines started before, or during, the push and a high steering angle.
Perhaps it was overloaded by a combination of having the engines started before, or during, the push and a high steering angle.
sorry to continue the drift but, I am still looking for a rationale answer to the question: "what added safety provides to initiate the after start checklist only after the clear signal from the ground crew instead of doing the after start checklist, wait for the clear signal and then ask for taxi clearance?
You have to omit both of these to be caught out, as opposed to just a single error in skipping straight to taxi clearance having completed a checklist that didn’t include “crew clear” as an item...
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to omit both of these to be caught out, as opposed to just a single error in skipping straight to taxi clearance having completed a checklist that didn’t include “crew clear” as an item...
Concerning the event, could we expect to see any public report published in the future? Or is it all kept hush hush?
Yes, I'd also concur with FullWings point.
It's still the one you haven't thought about that gets you, or not being careful enough, or not being sensitive to concerns of your crew.
It's still the one you haven't thought about that gets you, or not being careful enough, or not being sensitive to concerns of your crew.
it is the ideal tractor to handle pushback and towing requirements for all wide-body aircraft (except A380)
TUG GT110 aircraft pushback
My bet is on the tug being the offending operator, not the aircraft crew.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-ARZG commented on the GT110 (back on page 1).
There were (unconfirmed) reports on social media yesterday that the tow bar snapped during push back, causing the tug to subsequently crash into the nose gear with substantial force.
There were (unconfirmed) reports on social media yesterday that the tow bar snapped during push back, causing the tug to subsequently crash into the nose gear with substantial force.
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There were (unconfirmed) reports on social media yesterday that the tow bar snapped during push back, causing the tug to subsequently crash into the nose gear with substantial force.
Originally Posted by Basil
I think that, if you want to be taken seriously, you should moderate your language.
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-ARZG commented on the GT110 (back on page 1).
There were (unconfirmed) reports on social media yesterday that the tow bar snapped during push back, causing the tug to subsequently crash into the nose gear with substantial force.
There were (unconfirmed) reports on social media yesterday that the tow bar snapped during push back, causing the tug to subsequently crash into the nose gear with substantial force.
Flarearmed:----
Mate, I heard this myself on YMML ground not once but twice. They could not get the flight crew to look out the window and wave off the ground crew.
Second fact:- YMML ATC ( Ground 121.9 ) at most pushback locations for widebodies WILL NOT give a Taxy clearance UNTIL the Tug crew report "Clear" away from the Aircraft and off the taxyway.
Now, I operate a lot in China and elsewhere, it's not normally a problem.
These guys didn't understand ground asking them to wave off the ground crew OUT THE WINDOW, so there they sat.
In my little outfit we have learnt the hard way after mistakes were made, yes mistakes were made and hopefully addressed so PEOPLE DON'T GET KILLED.
We do not action the after start checklist until the wave off, the last item on that Checklist is ----Ground Crew clear, then we request Taxy.......very simple.
It's not rocket science, this procedure was developed because previously mistakes were made.....another Swiss Cheese hole hopefully closed.
It may be fine when you are in the Cockpit mate but it's when you aren't that there seems to be an Airmanship problem.
Mate, I heard this myself on YMML ground not once but twice. They could not get the flight crew to look out the window and wave off the ground crew.
Second fact:- YMML ATC ( Ground 121.9 ) at most pushback locations for widebodies WILL NOT give a Taxy clearance UNTIL the Tug crew report "Clear" away from the Aircraft and off the taxyway.
Now, I operate a lot in China and elsewhere, it's not normally a problem.
These guys didn't understand ground asking them to wave off the ground crew OUT THE WINDOW, so there they sat.
In my little outfit we have learnt the hard way after mistakes were made, yes mistakes were made and hopefully addressed so PEOPLE DON'T GET KILLED.
We do not action the after start checklist until the wave off, the last item on that Checklist is ----Ground Crew clear, then we request Taxy.......very simple.
It's not rocket science, this procedure was developed because previously mistakes were made.....another Swiss Cheese hole hopefully closed.
It may be fine when you are in the Cockpit mate but it's when you aren't that there seems to be an Airmanship problem.
Last edited by ACMS; 13th Nov 2016 at 06:13.
Oh and another thing.......
It's not unusual to hear foreign carriers requesting taxy clearance in HKG while the ground crew are still at the nosewheel. ATC have come back and said, "Confirm your ground crew are still connected?"
They too have Eyes and Binoculars and can see....
This practice has to stop.
It's not unusual to hear foreign carriers requesting taxy clearance in HKG while the ground crew are still at the nosewheel. ATC have come back and said, "Confirm your ground crew are still connected?"
They too have Eyes and Binoculars and can see....
This practice has to stop.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Mel
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That tug is far too small to push an A380
I wouldn't use it for anything more than an A330 safely
My guess is once the engines started the tug was still at an angle and the plane Pushed the tug
I wouldn't use it for anything more than an A330 safely
My guess is once the engines started the tug was still at an angle and the plane Pushed the tug
My tuppence worth...
Speaking from personal experience when I was almost chopped into small pieces by an ATP and colleagues gripping the concrete with their finger nails when a 747 taxied before clearance and the no.2 engine went over the top of them!
We rely on you guys to follow SOPS to keep us safe.
Some A330 operators set flaps after engine start, this sends the engines to flight idle. Not particularly unsafe perhaps but on a greasy wet night, it's another hole in the cheese.
Speaking from personal experience when I was almost chopped into small pieces by an ATP and colleagues gripping the concrete with their finger nails when a 747 taxied before clearance and the no.2 engine went over the top of them!
We rely on you guys to follow SOPS to keep us safe.
sorry, but I do not see the point. Why wait for the hand signal before doing the checklist???? You do the checklist (you are not moving and the park brake is set) then, AFTER you receive the hand signal you request taxi.
Perhaps they were trying to be courteous to the other ramp occupants: That's 20 fewer seconds that everyone else has to look at a hideously ugly aircraft.
