TP1971 hard landing closes Lisbon Humberto
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Doonfoot, Ayr
Age: 70
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TP1971 hard landing closes Lisbon Humberto
A much better report
Accident: White AT72 at Lisbon on Oct 22nd 2016, both nose wheels separated on hard landing
on a side note Why do people post links to sensationalist poor reporting??
Accident: White AT72 at Lisbon on Oct 22nd 2016, both nose wheels separated on hard landing
on a side note Why do people post links to sensationalist poor reporting??
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Rainsville
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do people post links to sensationalist poor reporting??
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Accident Investigation Bureau with aircraft need government authorization to investigate problem with plane in Lisbon
SOFIA MARTINS SANTOS
The director of the Office of Prevention and Aircraft with Accident Investigation (GPIAA), Álvaro Neves, will request authorization from the Minister Pedro Marques to continue to examine the incident with a plane of TAP at the weekend. The landing gear broke and the case needs to go to a laboratory in France to make the reading of the black boxes.
The director of GPIAA recalled, told TSF, which the organism lives in a financial bottleneck situation. So Álvaro Neves yesterday asked permission from the government to continue the investigation.
BLUE AIRPLANE
The incident with an aircraft with colors of TAP, which was carrying 20 people in connection Porto-Lisbon, made the passengers did not win to scare when one of the landing gear tires burst. The track has even need to be closed. The rugged device is one of the ATR TAP Express brand earlier this year replaced Portugalia. According to the airline, "it is an ATR72, service TAP Express since April 2016.
Previously, it was recorded by the Blue, which received the factory aircraft in December 2015. It is. therefore, a new aircraft, which began operating in the service of TAP Express four months after leaving the factory. "
The incident, however, again raised issues within the sector, which early on questioned both the end of Portugalia, whose operation was handed over to White, as the very purchase of aircraft to Azul, a Brazilian company David Neeleman, one of the shareholders Gateway consortium.
PORTUGÁLIA END
The end of Portugalia was announced this year with the emergence of TAP Express, whose flights were delivered to White, a private company whose president at the time of the operation, was the staff of TAP. The decision created pilots surpluses within the Portugalia and indignation. Rui Moreira, mayor of Porto, was one of the figures most questioned the choice of this company "without public capital involved and no assessment of the Competition Authority".
17 AIRCRAFT
The EuroAtlantic Airways, a private Portuguese airline, TAP admitted process even if it were not explained the delivery of aircraft and routes the carrier White, under the restructuring drawn by the new shareholders of the company flag. Humberto Pedrosa and David Neeleman. According to this company, it should have been a market survey to deliver the operation of Portugalia.
The 17 new aircraft were in accordance with TAP supplied by Blue in leasing, an operation valued at 400 million Atros. Aircraft Blue, who were with little activity in Brazil due to the difficulties in that market, won so new destinations.
SOFIA MARTINS SANTOS
The director of the Office of Prevention and Aircraft with Accident Investigation (GPIAA), Álvaro Neves, will request authorization from the Minister Pedro Marques to continue to examine the incident with a plane of TAP at the weekend. The landing gear broke and the case needs to go to a laboratory in France to make the reading of the black boxes.
The director of GPIAA recalled, told TSF, which the organism lives in a financial bottleneck situation. So Álvaro Neves yesterday asked permission from the government to continue the investigation.
BLUE AIRPLANE
The incident with an aircraft with colors of TAP, which was carrying 20 people in connection Porto-Lisbon, made the passengers did not win to scare when one of the landing gear tires burst. The track has even need to be closed. The rugged device is one of the ATR TAP Express brand earlier this year replaced Portugalia. According to the airline, "it is an ATR72, service TAP Express since April 2016.
Previously, it was recorded by the Blue, which received the factory aircraft in December 2015. It is. therefore, a new aircraft, which began operating in the service of TAP Express four months after leaving the factory. "
The incident, however, again raised issues within the sector, which early on questioned both the end of Portugalia, whose operation was handed over to White, as the very purchase of aircraft to Azul, a Brazilian company David Neeleman, one of the shareholders Gateway consortium.
PORTUGÁLIA END
The end of Portugalia was announced this year with the emergence of TAP Express, whose flights were delivered to White, a private company whose president at the time of the operation, was the staff of TAP. The decision created pilots surpluses within the Portugalia and indignation. Rui Moreira, mayor of Porto, was one of the figures most questioned the choice of this company "without public capital involved and no assessment of the Competition Authority".
17 AIRCRAFT
The EuroAtlantic Airways, a private Portuguese airline, TAP admitted process even if it were not explained the delivery of aircraft and routes the carrier White, under the restructuring drawn by the new shareholders of the company flag. Humberto Pedrosa and David Neeleman. According to this company, it should have been a market survey to deliver the operation of Portugalia.
The 17 new aircraft were in accordance with TAP supplied by Blue in leasing, an operation valued at 400 million Atros. Aircraft Blue, who were with little activity in Brazil due to the difficulties in that market, won so new destinations.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"One of our concerns is the tremendous lack of funds", said Miguel Silveira.
By Lusa | 16: 19
The association of Portuguese pilots argued Tuesday that the lack of Prevention Office media and with Aircraft Accident Investigation undermines the sovereignty of the Portuguese State, considering "shameful" have to resort to counterparts in other countries.
"One of our concerns is the tremendous lack Prevention Office's funding and Accident Investigation Aircraft [GPIAA], which has carried over from the previous executive," he told Lusa the president of the direction of the Association of Portuguese Pilots Airline (APPLA ) Miguel Silveira.
Speaking to Lusa, the spokesman for the pilots emphasized that "it is a matter of sovereignty of the Portuguese State, because if an accident happens with a more serious aircraft, the GPIAA not afford to do research," stressing that "much more important than investigation of accidents and incidents, it is prevention. "
Miguel Silveira considered "shameful" have to resort to the cabinet counterpart in England, to move a technician to Portugal to investigate Saturday's incident when an ATR aircraft TAP Express landed at Lisbon Airport.
"This is shameful. It is the Portuguese state to resign their functions, which can have tremendous influence on the air transport airline for our country, if they see that we have a bad assistance in case of an accident," he said .
As Lusa reported today, after an initial assessment the front axle of the plane that broke apart during the landing, the investigation of GPIAA continue with the assessment to the main train structure (if it was damaged, the incident is regarded as an accident) and the two black boxes of the aircraft.
In the first case, the director Álvaro Neves asked the English counterpart (with which the GPIAA has a cooperation agreement) that provides a specialized technical structures to do this analysis and in the second, asked collaboration to French counterpart that has the necessary equipment for reading the black boxes, which allow to have more information about the time of landing.
The "financial strangulation" of GPIAA, which in 2016 saw the annual budget reduced to 300,000 euros (previously 500 thousand euros) requires "to ask permission for everything," said the director of the public body.
"I do not have autonomy to dispatch material or move an investigator the next day [to an incident] is not acceptable," he considered Álvaro Neves, who is three years ahead of the body that investigates accidents and incidents with aircraft.
By Lusa | 16: 19
The association of Portuguese pilots argued Tuesday that the lack of Prevention Office media and with Aircraft Accident Investigation undermines the sovereignty of the Portuguese State, considering "shameful" have to resort to counterparts in other countries.
"One of our concerns is the tremendous lack Prevention Office's funding and Accident Investigation Aircraft [GPIAA], which has carried over from the previous executive," he told Lusa the president of the direction of the Association of Portuguese Pilots Airline (APPLA ) Miguel Silveira.
Speaking to Lusa, the spokesman for the pilots emphasized that "it is a matter of sovereignty of the Portuguese State, because if an accident happens with a more serious aircraft, the GPIAA not afford to do research," stressing that "much more important than investigation of accidents and incidents, it is prevention. "
Miguel Silveira considered "shameful" have to resort to the cabinet counterpart in England, to move a technician to Portugal to investigate Saturday's incident when an ATR aircraft TAP Express landed at Lisbon Airport.
"This is shameful. It is the Portuguese state to resign their functions, which can have tremendous influence on the air transport airline for our country, if they see that we have a bad assistance in case of an accident," he said .
As Lusa reported today, after an initial assessment the front axle of the plane that broke apart during the landing, the investigation of GPIAA continue with the assessment to the main train structure (if it was damaged, the incident is regarded as an accident) and the two black boxes of the aircraft.
In the first case, the director Álvaro Neves asked the English counterpart (with which the GPIAA has a cooperation agreement) that provides a specialized technical structures to do this analysis and in the second, asked collaboration to French counterpart that has the necessary equipment for reading the black boxes, which allow to have more information about the time of landing.
The "financial strangulation" of GPIAA, which in 2016 saw the annual budget reduced to 300,000 euros (previously 500 thousand euros) requires "to ask permission for everything," said the director of the public body.
"I do not have autonomy to dispatch material or move an investigator the next day [to an incident] is not acceptable," he considered Álvaro Neves, who is three years ahead of the body that investigates accidents and incidents with aircraft.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern Europe
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... on using Google Translation, one should carefully read the translation result, as might it might produce translations that don't make much sense, namely if you use it to translate whole paragraphs. Useful tool, but there is a limit to what it can do ...
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Forest
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Translations
Zerograv
I agree with your comment. I tried putting the translation into the translator and it came back saying "Clear as mud". In other words, just like the original.
I agree with your comment. I tried putting the translation into the translator and it came back saying "Clear as mud". In other words, just like the original.
The GPIAA's own translation is probably a better bet:
"At 9h35m pm of 22th October occurred an incident with ATR aircraft model AT72-600 with registration CS-DJF, pertaining to White Airways company and operated by TAP Express. The Aircraft performs a regular flight of commercial passenger transport, in nocturnal atmosphere between Porto airport (LPPR) and Lisbon airport (LPPT).
The crew was making his sixth stage during a day with bad weather conditions.
During the final approach on ILS runway 21 in minimums instruments approach in LPPT the pilots found, heavy rain conditions and wind gusts plus ascending and descending wind currents.
According crew report below 50 feet the aircraft was shaken and the final approach was in severe conditions of rain, and the plane touched three times on the ground. (Bounced landing).
The aircraft suffered a hard touchdown, bounced, touched down hard again with excessive load on the nose gear causing both nose wheels to separate while the nose gear strut remained intact.
The aircraft still too kinetic energy bounced a second time, touching the third time on the runway and roll on with the main gear and over the nose gear structure.
After the third landing, when the aircraft stabilized on the track and has completed its landing, opening a trench in the runway surface with scraping of the front axle shaft, which supported the weight of the front section of the aircraft, preventing touch the front of the fuselage on ground, stopping after crossing the runway 17/35 intersection. The aircraft had substantial damage to the front landing gear strut.
The crew and passengers were disembarked normally without any injury reports between them.
The incident closed the runway 21/03 until 04:14 UTC when it was released for operations. The GPIAA attended the site and after being made all measures in relation to initial investigation released the aircraft, which was towed to the hangar."
GPIAA-Gabinete de Prevenção e Investigação de Acidentes com Aeronaves
"At 9h35m pm of 22th October occurred an incident with ATR aircraft model AT72-600 with registration CS-DJF, pertaining to White Airways company and operated by TAP Express. The Aircraft performs a regular flight of commercial passenger transport, in nocturnal atmosphere between Porto airport (LPPR) and Lisbon airport (LPPT).
The crew was making his sixth stage during a day with bad weather conditions.
During the final approach on ILS runway 21 in minimums instruments approach in LPPT the pilots found, heavy rain conditions and wind gusts plus ascending and descending wind currents.
According crew report below 50 feet the aircraft was shaken and the final approach was in severe conditions of rain, and the plane touched three times on the ground. (Bounced landing).
The aircraft suffered a hard touchdown, bounced, touched down hard again with excessive load on the nose gear causing both nose wheels to separate while the nose gear strut remained intact.
The aircraft still too kinetic energy bounced a second time, touching the third time on the runway and roll on with the main gear and over the nose gear structure.
After the third landing, when the aircraft stabilized on the track and has completed its landing, opening a trench in the runway surface with scraping of the front axle shaft, which supported the weight of the front section of the aircraft, preventing touch the front of the fuselage on ground, stopping after crossing the runway 17/35 intersection. The aircraft had substantial damage to the front landing gear strut.
The crew and passengers were disembarked normally without any injury reports between them.
The incident closed the runway 21/03 until 04:14 UTC when it was released for operations. The GPIAA attended the site and after being made all measures in relation to initial investigation released the aircraft, which was towed to the hangar."
GPIAA-Gabinete de Prevenção e Investigação de Acidentes com Aeronaves
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down East
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that's more than a hard landing , it's a controlled crash landing, whenever you damage the airplane you failed and it's time to practice some more "touch and goes. Pax in general are not fond of the "crash" and goes.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the Money Takes Me
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well let's take some facts at face value:
6 sectors for the crew in one day;
the final being the sector with minimums at destination;
White Airways being the operator.
Just how many holes in your Swiss cheese would you like Sir?
6 sectors for the crew in one day;
the final being the sector with minimums at destination;
White Airways being the operator.
Just how many holes in your Swiss cheese would you like Sir?
How is the fact that it was operated by White Airways already a hole in the cheese by itself?
The rest, true. 6 legs are not a fun thing to fly in one day, even less so in demanding weather. The investigation report will likely be interesting and have some words to say on scheduling rosters for short-range operation. While it may be legal under current legislation to roster that many legs in a single day, it is not always the safe and prudent choice.
The rest, true. 6 legs are not a fun thing to fly in one day, even less so in demanding weather. The investigation report will likely be interesting and have some words to say on scheduling rosters for short-range operation. While it may be legal under current legislation to roster that many legs in a single day, it is not always the safe and prudent choice.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Go around", followed soon after by "I say again go around".
Wonder if it crossed the PNF's mind to say those simple words or the PFs for that matter during any of the 3 landings?!
Wonder if it crossed the PNF's mind to say those simple words or the PFs for that matter during any of the 3 landings?!
White Airways being the operator.
I was wondering who "Humberto" was.
I googled a bit, so I suppose from now on we all swith to New York John, Sydney Charles and Toronto Lester.
And 6 sectors is asking for trouble. Get-home-itis is a silent, sneaky factor.
I googled a bit, so I suppose from now on we all swith to New York John, Sydney Charles and Toronto Lester.
And 6 sectors is asking for trouble. Get-home-itis is a silent, sneaky factor.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Doonfoot, Ayr
Age: 70
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A much better report
Accident: White AT72 at Lisbon on Oct 22nd 2016, both nose wheels separated on hard landing
on a side note Why do people post links to sensationalist poor reporting??
Accident: White AT72 at Lisbon on Oct 22nd 2016, both nose wheels separated on hard landing
on a side note Why do people post links to sensationalist poor reporting??
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And 6 sectors is asking for trouble. Get-home-itis is a silent, sneaky factor.
These were short domestic sectors. Yes, there could have been a Get-home-itis factor but I dispute that this would be linked to the number of sectors operated that day.
