Easy Strike?
Plumbum Pendular
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Easy Strike?
Holidaymakers face flights chaos as easyJet pilots plot strike action
I think Balpa are lacking the chops to have a strike, I think that they hope most of the pilots to go for the middle ground:
How much would the "short of a strike" do?
I think Balpa are lacking the chops to have a strike, I think that they hope most of the pilots to go for the middle ground:
It is understood that pilots are being asked to vote on whether or not to take action short of a strike and on industrial action that includes going on strike.
Plumbum Pendular
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But offering the middle ground I guess hoping that most of the pilots go for that so they don't have to go for the full blown strike.
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Is that the short pregnancy that is not the full blown to termination pregnancy?
Just to be clear:
BALPA is considering a strike in one UK airline "..... for industrial action over complaints of rising levels of fatigue that union officials insist risk “serious health and safety concerns”.
This is a UK airline in the British airline industry that is operating within EASA FTL's that are in force by all UK airlines. I admit I do not know the in-depth internal rostering practices of ez, or other UK airlines. I hear there is great opposition to the new EASA FTL's. Do these problems exist in any other UK airline? If so, why not a class action against EASA? Is ez really the correct and fruitful target?
If it is the case that this has come about after a year of discussions it is a sad refection on one or both parties.
When I used to have disputes with managers about working practices I always had a couple of suggestions to present whereby the productivity was equal, or even better, but in a more humane manner. A win win. They were supposed to explain why they were unacceptable. Usually it went in one ear and straight through. There would have been too much loss of face to have agreed. And that was the stumbling point. But don't forget the oft quoted addict that "my door is always open for suggestions." Shame the mind wasn't as well.
If this is indeed a lifestyle rostering issue then complaining will never win the day if it's legal. If an alternative scheme can be offered then the touchy/feely orange cuddly management will have to justify rejecting it. Is that the case; from the inside?
Just to be clear:
BALPA is considering a strike in one UK airline "..... for industrial action over complaints of rising levels of fatigue that union officials insist risk “serious health and safety concerns”.
This is a UK airline in the British airline industry that is operating within EASA FTL's that are in force by all UK airlines. I admit I do not know the in-depth internal rostering practices of ez, or other UK airlines. I hear there is great opposition to the new EASA FTL's. Do these problems exist in any other UK airline? If so, why not a class action against EASA? Is ez really the correct and fruitful target?
If it is the case that this has come about after a year of discussions it is a sad refection on one or both parties.
When I used to have disputes with managers about working practices I always had a couple of suggestions to present whereby the productivity was equal, or even better, but in a more humane manner. A win win. They were supposed to explain why they were unacceptable. Usually it went in one ear and straight through. There would have been too much loss of face to have agreed. And that was the stumbling point. But don't forget the oft quoted addict that "my door is always open for suggestions." Shame the mind wasn't as well.
If this is indeed a lifestyle rostering issue then complaining will never win the day if it's legal. If an alternative scheme can be offered then the touchy/feely orange cuddly management will have to justify rejecting it. Is that the case; from the inside?
Last edited by RAT 5; 10th Sep 2016 at 19:45.
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For me this is far too late. Balpa have let EastJet ruin the industry.
The CC in the mid 2000s refused to do anything about Flexi Crew and that's what let the rot set in.
I watched the then CC chairman let himself get completely stitched up by the BA CC at an ADC. Seeing the CC Chairman of the 2nd largest pilot workforce in the UK behave so ineptly I knew then that the industry in Europe was doomed.
The CC in the mid 2000s refused to do anything about Flexi Crew and that's what let the rot set in.
I watched the then CC chairman let himself get completely stitched up by the BA CC at an ADC. Seeing the CC Chairman of the 2nd largest pilot workforce in the UK behave so ineptly I knew then that the industry in Europe was doomed.
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Very wise, CaptainProp. Don't be so sure. EASA FTL's are causing AME's to strike, due to the disinterest of the CAA in the burgeoning fatigue problem in short-haul carriers. (Prop short-haul does not generate the problems that jet short/medium haul does, for a good many reasons.)
So in our little UK aviation world, we find doctors talking about striking. Don't tell me that can't happen. In my own company, fatigue sickness has far exceeded previous records. So striking is on the agenda, but withdrawal of labour is happening now on an unprecedented scale.
And just how big are easyJet on a scale of things? Bigger than BA, bigger than Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch, and far far bigger than any turboprop airlines.
So in our little UK aviation world, we find doctors talking about striking. Don't tell me that can't happen. In my own company, fatigue sickness has far exceeded previous records. So striking is on the agenda, but withdrawal of labour is happening now on an unprecedented scale.
And just how big are easyJet on a scale of things? Bigger than BA, bigger than Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch, and far far bigger than any turboprop airlines.
The contract I signed up to says that I can be rostered up to CAP371 limits. Now EASA limits are in force my hours available for work have increased with no apparent change of contract or increase in salary. I recon the Company are able to get an extra days work out of me in 7 days and sometimes are doing so. This summer has been the busiest for some time.
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Easyjet said pilots' workloads were set by the Civil Aviation Authority.
The airlines have to take action if rosters are proving to be fatiguing. If you do not go off fatigued then they will keep screwing you into the ground.
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There does seem to be a bit of 'push back' against some of the current rosters by both CC and pilots.
I was delayed on a flight out of Amsterdam a couple of weeks back (AMS based aircraft and crew). Aircraft arrived on stand 5 minutes late on the previous sector from Basel, leaving 30 minutes to turn round for the flight to Gatwick (quite feasible when using the low-cost 'H' gates at Schipol). Pax were called to the gate before the aircraft was on stand, but left queuing for 30 minutes, then at the scheduled departure time, the gate staff announced there would be a delay as CC 'had already had a long day and needed a meal break'
I was told that some EZY pilots are insisting that breaks are taken, even if this means delaying the flight.
I'd not come across this before
I was delayed on a flight out of Amsterdam a couple of weeks back (AMS based aircraft and crew). Aircraft arrived on stand 5 minutes late on the previous sector from Basel, leaving 30 minutes to turn round for the flight to Gatwick (quite feasible when using the low-cost 'H' gates at Schipol). Pax were called to the gate before the aircraft was on stand, but left queuing for 30 minutes, then at the scheduled departure time, the gate staff announced there would be a delay as CC 'had already had a long day and needed a meal break'
I was told that some EZY pilots are insisting that breaks are taken, even if this means delaying the flight.
I'd not come across this before
excellent move. I wonder how the office staff who make these schedules would feel if their office schedules did not allow them to take a lunch break or tea break.
(a) During the FDP there shall be the opportunity for a meal and drink in order to avoid any detriment to a crew member’s performance, especially when the FDP exceeds 6 hours.
ORO.FTL.240
ORO.FTL.240
there would be a delay as CC 'had already had a long day and needed a meal break'
I was told that some EZY pilots are insisting that breaks are taken, even if this means delaying the flight.
I'd not come across this before
I was told that some EZY pilots are insisting that breaks are taken, even if this means delaying the flight.
I'd not come across this before
Bravo the Captain!
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The problem is airline managers view squishy human beings as computers and machines, because that's what their management textbook gave them as a toolset.
Unfortunately while the Autopilot is still good to go at the end of 9 hours of flying over 3 sectors, I, am slightly tired. Especially on day seven.
EASA has been a joke. If you don't work for a reputable company, you're toast. Incidents of Stress and Anxiety related illness from colleagues at my old airline is through the roof. Stress and Anxiety a symptom of fatigue? Funny old thing!
Every airline reporting increased sickness. That's just lazy work shy pilots. Not the new stupid work rules.
Then throw in to this toxic mix variability of schedule and the effect that has on home life. Plus the general treatment from an anonymous "crew scheduler" and the situation is untenable.
What do the CAA do?
I for one applaud Easy pilots. Go get 'em, and if it means some people can't fly to Malaga for £30 then so be it, because flying to Malaga doesn't and shouldn't cost £30.
Unfortunately while the Autopilot is still good to go at the end of 9 hours of flying over 3 sectors, I, am slightly tired. Especially on day seven.
EASA has been a joke. If you don't work for a reputable company, you're toast. Incidents of Stress and Anxiety related illness from colleagues at my old airline is through the roof. Stress and Anxiety a symptom of fatigue? Funny old thing!
Every airline reporting increased sickness. That's just lazy work shy pilots. Not the new stupid work rules.
Then throw in to this toxic mix variability of schedule and the effect that has on home life. Plus the general treatment from an anonymous "crew scheduler" and the situation is untenable.
What do the CAA do?
I for one applaud Easy pilots. Go get 'em, and if it means some people can't fly to Malaga for £30 then so be it, because flying to Malaga doesn't and shouldn't cost £30.
RHS, I think you are absolutely spot on..
I would bet my bottom dollar/euro that the damned committee that formulated these new FTLs didn't ever damned well work them themselves to see how dangerously tired they felt after 6 or 7 days flying..
I would bet my bottom dollar/euro that the damned committee that formulated these new FTLs didn't ever damned well work them themselves to see how dangerously tired they felt after 6 or 7 days flying..
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(a) During the FDP there shall be the opportunity for a meal and drink in order to avoid any detriment to a crew member’s performance, especially when the FDP exceeds 6 hours.
ORO.FTL.240
Once again a classic example of the reality of the Ops manual saying one thing, for the digestion of the XAA to sign it off, and what happens everyday on board. I used to fly for an operator that had such statements in the manual and then had 5 short sector days with no time what so ever for other than a grabbed glass of water and a biscuit as the CA's passed in & out of the galley doing full service 5 times in 45 mins each. That, plus the rapid turnaround with full security check, and 8 hours passed with no significant sustenance. XAA's really do need to wake up and take their heads out if the sand.
This topic about how poor on board working conditions are compared to ground jobs, and as directed by the 'workers' directive' has been debated for 20 years with no progress.
ORO.FTL.240
Once again a classic example of the reality of the Ops manual saying one thing, for the digestion of the XAA to sign it off, and what happens everyday on board. I used to fly for an operator that had such statements in the manual and then had 5 short sector days with no time what so ever for other than a grabbed glass of water and a biscuit as the CA's passed in & out of the galley doing full service 5 times in 45 mins each. That, plus the rapid turnaround with full security check, and 8 hours passed with no significant sustenance. XAA's really do need to wake up and take their heads out if the sand.
This topic about how poor on board working conditions are compared to ground jobs, and as directed by the 'workers' directive' has been debated for 20 years with no progress.
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Rhs - every airline reporting increased sickness? Your talking every airline in Europe? Not mine UK AOC. Remember most EU airlines had bee n working to near similar limits under sub part Q
Meal break - what was in CAP before?. The EASA regulation now supports the Commander making that (sound) decision
Roy Budd is the extra fatigue due to EASA or other factors, increased aircraft, attrition etc
Is it the increased duty hours or the no early rules or increased FDP on earlies or a combo of all and some pi££ed off (hard working) pilots looking for a pay rise?
Meal break - what was in CAP before?. The EASA regulation now supports the Commander making that (sound) decision
Roy Budd is the extra fatigue due to EASA or other factors, increased aircraft, attrition etc
Is it the increased duty hours or the no early rules or increased FDP on earlies or a combo of all and some pi££ed off (hard working) pilots looking for a pay rise?
Personally I would say pay doesn't come into it. The most telling part of EASA FTL for me is that a day off is now called an extended recovery period. During my days off that is all I am trying to achieve and having to actively manage my sleep patterns to try and prepare for the next working block. Actually enjoying your day off or doing anything meaningful at home is not possible so having extra cash is not a factor. Long earlies are what I find difficult to cope with, and then on my extended recovery period my body still wants to get up at 4am which disrupts my sleep patterns.This can last well into the next working block , which may include long afternoon flights such as Cyprus.
I have had fatigue induced sickness twice this summer and also have reported fatigued on several occassions. The company see fatigue limits as a rostering target and continually press to test with the work patterns, and this is with a reasonabe scheduling agreement.
I wish the Easy pilots luck with their industrial action but until other european carriers start reporting similar problems then EASA will do nothing.
I have had fatigue induced sickness twice this summer and also have reported fatigued on several occassions. The company see fatigue limits as a rostering target and continually press to test with the work patterns, and this is with a reasonabe scheduling agreement.
I wish the Easy pilots luck with their industrial action but until other european carriers start reporting similar problems then EASA will do nothing.
Last edited by tubby linton; 13th Sep 2016 at 10:39.