Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?
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Absolute Power....Corrupts absolute English, completely !
The "crime", apparently, was/is for "abusing social media networks".
Work that one out !
Social Media Networks Lives Matter....it would seem.
What next, from the UAE Law makers. What other "inanimate objects" are to be awarded protection ?
Rights for Concepts ? Stop Non-Verbal Communication mis-use ?
I think they must have lost control of their twitter account that morning....
The "crime", apparently, was/is for "abusing social media networks".
Work that one out !
Social Media Networks Lives Matter....it would seem.
What next, from the UAE Law makers. What other "inanimate objects" are to be awarded protection ?
Rights for Concepts ? Stop Non-Verbal Communication mis-use ?
I think they must have lost control of their twitter account that morning....
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So after 28 pages it seems the aircraft came in hot and high, smashed into the runway causing it to bounce. The crew attempted a go around but didn't firewall the throttles but did raise the gear. Period. All kudos to the cabin crew for getting everyone off. There should be an automatic fine for pax retrieving their belongings from overhead lockers. End of.
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What ever the facts, the F/O must be in a very difficult position. He deserves all the support available and I just hope there are behind the scenes efforts to look after him and his family.
As the F/O is a QF employee (albeit on LWOP), it will be interesting to see how QF manages this vis a vis the close working relationship with EK.
Megaphone diplomacy never works in scenarios like this.
As the F/O is a QF employee (albeit on LWOP), it will be interesting to see how QF manages this vis a vis the close working relationship with EK.
Megaphone diplomacy never works in scenarios like this.
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If the F/O has been arrested (or not), it still doesn't answer the question(s) of
Why the GA
When the GA
What happened during the failed GA
I can only assume/speculate/guess/blow smoke from my behind and so on....
...that "the gear was retracted when a positive rate was indicated (refer to Co SOP/Owner manual etc on "how it is indicated" on type/at office)" BECAUSE the gear was down (if the "eye-witness" is "real") and it was retracted BUT perhaps not "fully" (as in, the nose gear door PERHAPS had not closed).
Why the GA
When the GA
What happened during the failed GA
I can only assume/speculate/guess/blow smoke from my behind and so on....
...that "the gear was retracted when a positive rate was indicated (refer to Co SOP/Owner manual etc on "how it is indicated" on type/at office)" BECAUSE the gear was down (if the "eye-witness" is "real") and it was retracted BUT perhaps not "fully" (as in, the nose gear door PERHAPS had not closed).
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Google the recent story of an Australian ( I think ) lady who took a photo of a perfectly mobile gentlemen who abused the road laws by parking in a disabled space. The photo was then posted on social media. She was jailed briefly and deported.
Slightly further back, an Indian gentleman posted a video of an Emirati driver kicking an Indian expat driver after the Indian either made a mistake or didn't let the local through. The person posting the video was arrested.
Just sayin'... Not trying to influence opinions... Most locals out there are fine, but cultural differences do exist no matter what we WANT to believe to make ourselves seem more tolerant of others...
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Other sight backing posts #556 & #557
This other pic (surely taken short before dawn) gives another good idea about the nose gear doors OPEN and some kind of circular shade that could be a wheel. Resolution is not good to determine the last assert.
This image is a possible way to help determine if the gear was down or not at the moment of the impact/bounce. Word to specialists, I'm not one of those.
Somebody in this thread questioned why the hull was rapidly dismantled and/or pieces being hidden somewhere.
This is a regular action after an accident, just to avoid an airline "flag" showing disaster.
When it's impossible to MOVE the a/c out of sight, it's used to PAINT the places where the symbols of the airline appear (tail, i.e.)
This image is a possible way to help determine if the gear was down or not at the moment of the impact/bounce. Word to specialists, I'm not one of those.
Somebody in this thread questioned why the hull was rapidly dismantled and/or pieces being hidden somewhere.
This is a regular action after an accident, just to avoid an airline "flag" showing disaster.
When it's impossible to MOVE the a/c out of sight, it's used to PAINT the places where the symbols of the airline appear (tail, i.e.)
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On B777 the landing gear unlocks immediately after UP selection, unlocking is on the 'door open' line. Retraction is sequenced to start when the related landing gear door is fully open.
Thus if UP is selected and the aircraft drops onto the unlocked gear, there is the possibility that the gear will collapse. Wing landing gear are designed to detach cleanly without fuel tank rupture, but that is in the downlocked condition. If the aircraft comes down hard on unlocked wing gear, the loads will be acting on a different plane, so the resulting torque nay result in the gear attachments failing in a different manner than the 'crashworthiness gear shedding case' which may explain the apparent fuel tank breach.
Thus if UP is selected and the aircraft drops onto the unlocked gear, there is the possibility that the gear will collapse. Wing landing gear are designed to detach cleanly without fuel tank rupture, but that is in the downlocked condition. If the aircraft comes down hard on unlocked wing gear, the loads will be acting on a different plane, so the resulting torque nay result in the gear attachments failing in a different manner than the 'crashworthiness gear shedding case' which may explain the apparent fuel tank breach.
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Is there any documented evidence of people being arrested for posting on an internet forum. Anywhere, not just UAE.
Is there any documented evidence of people being arrested for posting on an internet forum. Anywhere, not just UAE.
Facebook rant lands US man in UAE jail - BBC News
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EXCLUSIVE: UAE recruiting ‘elite task force’ for secret surveillance state
#GCC
Security researcher says he was offered $20,000 a month to help the UAE government spy on the public
Boats are shown moored at the International Marine Club in front of skyscrapers in Dubai (AFP)
Rori Donaghy's picture
Rori Donaghy
Friday 1 July 2016 00:01 UTC
Last update: Monday 1 August 2016 13:23 UTC
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Topics: GCC
Tags: UAE, Surveillance, recruitment, Technology, Israel, Security
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The United Arab Emirates is recruiting an international team of computer experts to develop a far-reaching surveillance state covering Abu Dhabi and Dubai, Middle East Eye can reveal.
Italian security expert Simone Margaritelli divulged details of the project after recently travelling to Dubai for a job interview that turned out to be for what he described as an “extremely shady” surveillance system.
Margaritelli is a mobile security researcher who lives in Rome and works in the research and development team at the San Francisco-based mobile security company Zimperium.
He was targeted for recruitment by the UAE partly because of his work on BetterCap, an open source tool that eavesdrops on online communications.
'Large-scale surveillance solutions'
Margaritelli was initially contacted on 3 July by an Italian employee of Verint Systems, a security company in New York that bases half of its 2,800 staff in Israel. He was told in an email, seen by MEE, that the UAE was building “a research and development unit that will constitute their most advanced branch of cyber security, to the exclusive benefit of the [UAE’s] national security”.
On 20 July, Margaritelli travelled to Dubai, where he learnt more about the UAE’s goal of “creating an elite task force to research and develop new large-scale surveillance solutions”.
Sitting on the 29th floor of the Marina Plaza in Dubai’s upscale marina, Margaritelli said he was told that the UAE was developing a surveillance system “capable of intercepting, modifying, and diverting (as well as occasionally obscuring) traffic on IP, 2G, 3G, and 4G networks”.
Margaritelli said he was informed that the “big boss” behind the project was Faisal al-Bannai, an Emirati businessman who is the chief executive officer of UAE security company Dark Matter.
Dark Matter describes itself as a “trusted partner” of the UAE government. On its website the company says it is “the only company in the region and one of an elite few globally that covers the vast spectrum of cyber security needs”.
Margaritelli told MEE he was offered a monthly tax-free salary of $15,000 along with an apartment and bonuses if he joined and that the offer was raised to $20,000 a month after he initially rejected it.
“They probably would have raised it even more,” he said.
'Hardware probes all over the country'
Margaritelli confirmed that the Falcon Eye surveillance system, which was recently announced by Abu Dhabi authorities, means the UAE has “hardware probes all over the country”.
Margaritelli’s Italian contact at Verint System told him that the probe network meant that, with the appropriate software, Emirati authorities could spy on the communications of anyone in Abu Dhabi or Dubai.
“Imagine that there’s a person of interest at the Dubai Mall,” read an email sent to Margaritelli and seen by MEE. “We’ve already set up all our probes all over the city, we press a button and BOOM! All the devices in the Mall are infected and traceable.”
The New York Times recently reported that the UAE bought a number of surveillance products from companies including Italian firm Hacking Team. But Margaritelli said the significance of his job offer was that the Emirati government was now seeking to develop its own system and not just buy standalone products.
Margaritelli said local companies in the UAE had agreed to cooperate with the government’s surveillance plans and that the probes were being put “everywhere”, including in shopping centres and airports in Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
“They just need a scalable software to put on them,” Margaritelli said, for the mass surveillance system to become operational.
Margaritelli rejected the job on concerns about its nature, and left the UAE on 25 July. “[Freedom] of speech is indisputable,” he wrote on his personal website. “It is a basic right that should be granted to anyone, regardless of geopolitical context, creed, or gender. Denying this right is fascism in its lowest form.”
Margaritelli said the UAE was trying to recruit “young IT security talents by promising large sums of money … various bonuses, apartments, and most of all, by presenting a professionally and intellectually stimulating environment”.
He added that if any concerns were raised by those working on the project, they would be told about “the necessary compromises when it comes to national security”.
The Israeli connection
News of the UAE’s latest moves in advancing their already highly sophisticated surveillance capacity comes after MEE revealed last year that the company charged with installing the Falcon Eye system was owned by Israeli businessman Mati Kochavi.
Israeli involvement in the UAE’s surveillance system is part of a burgeoning relationship between the two countries, despite there being no official diplomatic relations.
Israel’s Channel 2 reported in January that the Israeli foreign ministry was interested in opening an office in Abu Dhabi. It followed the December 2015 announcement that Israel was opening a public office in the UAE at the Abu Dhabi headquarters of the International Renewable Energy Agency.
A spokesperson for human rights group Privacy International told MEE that the UAE’s surveillance plans are “absolutely frightening”.
Research officer Edin Omanovic said: “Such a surveillance infrastructure is wired to carry out intrusive surveillance on every person and device in the country, regardless of any suspicion. The fact that international surveillance companies are reportedly being contracted to implement the project underlines the role of industry in facilitating surveillance, the need for more transparency, and the urgency of holding it to account.”
Omanovic added the UAE’s alleged poor human rights record should raise concerns about their plans for far-reaching surveillance in the Gulf state. The UAE has regularly been accused of imprisoning and torturing peaceful critics of the state, allegations strongly denied by the Emirati authorities.
None of the companies mentioned in this article or the UAE government responded to repeated requests for comment.
#GCC
Security researcher says he was offered $20,000 a month to help the UAE government spy on the public
Boats are shown moored at the International Marine Club in front of skyscrapers in Dubai (AFP)
Rori Donaghy's picture
Rori Donaghy
Friday 1 July 2016 00:01 UTC
Last update: Monday 1 August 2016 13:23 UTC
918 277googleplus7 1374
Topics: GCC
Tags: UAE, Surveillance, recruitment, Technology, Israel, Security
Show comments
The United Arab Emirates is recruiting an international team of computer experts to develop a far-reaching surveillance state covering Abu Dhabi and Dubai, Middle East Eye can reveal.
Italian security expert Simone Margaritelli divulged details of the project after recently travelling to Dubai for a job interview that turned out to be for what he described as an “extremely shady” surveillance system.
Margaritelli is a mobile security researcher who lives in Rome and works in the research and development team at the San Francisco-based mobile security company Zimperium.
He was targeted for recruitment by the UAE partly because of his work on BetterCap, an open source tool that eavesdrops on online communications.
'Large-scale surveillance solutions'
Margaritelli was initially contacted on 3 July by an Italian employee of Verint Systems, a security company in New York that bases half of its 2,800 staff in Israel. He was told in an email, seen by MEE, that the UAE was building “a research and development unit that will constitute their most advanced branch of cyber security, to the exclusive benefit of the [UAE’s] national security”.
On 20 July, Margaritelli travelled to Dubai, where he learnt more about the UAE’s goal of “creating an elite task force to research and develop new large-scale surveillance solutions”.
Sitting on the 29th floor of the Marina Plaza in Dubai’s upscale marina, Margaritelli said he was told that the UAE was developing a surveillance system “capable of intercepting, modifying, and diverting (as well as occasionally obscuring) traffic on IP, 2G, 3G, and 4G networks”.
Margaritelli said he was informed that the “big boss” behind the project was Faisal al-Bannai, an Emirati businessman who is the chief executive officer of UAE security company Dark Matter.
Dark Matter describes itself as a “trusted partner” of the UAE government. On its website the company says it is “the only company in the region and one of an elite few globally that covers the vast spectrum of cyber security needs”.
Margaritelli told MEE he was offered a monthly tax-free salary of $15,000 along with an apartment and bonuses if he joined and that the offer was raised to $20,000 a month after he initially rejected it.
“They probably would have raised it even more,” he said.
'Hardware probes all over the country'
Margaritelli confirmed that the Falcon Eye surveillance system, which was recently announced by Abu Dhabi authorities, means the UAE has “hardware probes all over the country”.
Margaritelli’s Italian contact at Verint System told him that the probe network meant that, with the appropriate software, Emirati authorities could spy on the communications of anyone in Abu Dhabi or Dubai.
“Imagine that there’s a person of interest at the Dubai Mall,” read an email sent to Margaritelli and seen by MEE. “We’ve already set up all our probes all over the city, we press a button and BOOM! All the devices in the Mall are infected and traceable.”
The New York Times recently reported that the UAE bought a number of surveillance products from companies including Italian firm Hacking Team. But Margaritelli said the significance of his job offer was that the Emirati government was now seeking to develop its own system and not just buy standalone products.
Margaritelli said local companies in the UAE had agreed to cooperate with the government’s surveillance plans and that the probes were being put “everywhere”, including in shopping centres and airports in Abu Dhabi and Dubai.
“They just need a scalable software to put on them,” Margaritelli said, for the mass surveillance system to become operational.
Margaritelli rejected the job on concerns about its nature, and left the UAE on 25 July. “[Freedom] of speech is indisputable,” he wrote on his personal website. “It is a basic right that should be granted to anyone, regardless of geopolitical context, creed, or gender. Denying this right is fascism in its lowest form.”
Margaritelli said the UAE was trying to recruit “young IT security talents by promising large sums of money … various bonuses, apartments, and most of all, by presenting a professionally and intellectually stimulating environment”.
He added that if any concerns were raised by those working on the project, they would be told about “the necessary compromises when it comes to national security”.
The Israeli connection
News of the UAE’s latest moves in advancing their already highly sophisticated surveillance capacity comes after MEE revealed last year that the company charged with installing the Falcon Eye system was owned by Israeli businessman Mati Kochavi.
Israeli involvement in the UAE’s surveillance system is part of a burgeoning relationship between the two countries, despite there being no official diplomatic relations.
Israel’s Channel 2 reported in January that the Israeli foreign ministry was interested in opening an office in Abu Dhabi. It followed the December 2015 announcement that Israel was opening a public office in the UAE at the Abu Dhabi headquarters of the International Renewable Energy Agency.
A spokesperson for human rights group Privacy International told MEE that the UAE’s surveillance plans are “absolutely frightening”.
Research officer Edin Omanovic said: “Such a surveillance infrastructure is wired to carry out intrusive surveillance on every person and device in the country, regardless of any suspicion. The fact that international surveillance companies are reportedly being contracted to implement the project underlines the role of industry in facilitating surveillance, the need for more transparency, and the urgency of holding it to account.”
Omanovic added the UAE’s alleged poor human rights record should raise concerns about their plans for far-reaching surveillance in the Gulf state. The UAE has regularly been accused of imprisoning and torturing peaceful critics of the state, allegations strongly denied by the Emirati authorities.
None of the companies mentioned in this article or the UAE government responded to repeated requests for comment.
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One has to assume that by now the crew have been interviewed and divulged what went on in their minds and with their hands. I would also assume that ATC have been interviewed & the FDR & CVR have been decoded by now. In other words there must be huge amount of information in the hands of the investigators. I wonder when we can expect an 'interim' report.
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Following looks like a reliable report by a pilot on the ground near the runway. The details about taxiway etc can be written by a pilot only. Copying and pasting as received.
If this is true the ATC must take the major blame for allowing this aircraft to land when two had aborted. Are they not negligent in letting an aircraft land on a runway end that had a WX issue?
Quote
Yesterday was the hot day for DXB, temperature was 48°C and QNH was 994. 12L was for arrival and 12R for departure.
We (IX-384) were at E2, and we taxied out via P2 and holding at N2 to cross 12L after the arriving aircraft. We saw our A321 PPB or E coming in, and at around 200 feet becoming unstable. Her attitude & wings went up down and immediately she went around. As advised, we cross the runway and proceeded to M2 L3 for further taxi. After that A321, another Emirates' 777 went around. Both the birds did go-around, around 200 feet, so I guess the winds at that height were unfavourable.
We continued our taxi on L4, briefly held at L4B, took a left turn at K for K4 intersection departure. During this time and after those two go arounds, we saw one more EK 777 landing on the runway 12L. We were on Kilo so couldn't see her approach, but we saw her landing at the normal touchdown zone.
When we were turning left on Kilo for K4 departure, and after completion of our checks, we saw her - EK521. They were sightly ahead of the perpendicular position on 12L - with respect to K4 of 12R. She was about 30/40' from the ground with nose up attitude, her attitude confused us thinking if ATC allowed parallel take off from 12L. We were discussing this, and we saw she is struggling to climb (landing dear were down). At a point around 150/200 feet, the struggle to climb stopped, for s brief moment leveled out, and then slowly she came down.
Those chain of events: from 50' feet, to level out, and coming down, looked like a slow motion for me. May be because of the unusual that happened, or, because of the thrust versus weight struggle, or, my perception - I don't know. But that was unreal for me to see 777 struggling and then succumbing to engines' fight with temperature + pressure.
Pilots went around (very low height) post windshear alert and so didn't take the gear up as per the required actions, OR, deliberately left the gear down following a normal go around and would have realised that rate of climb is insufficient. Whatever is the reason - but their decision of keeping the gear down was indeed a remarkable decision. IMO, a boon for all of them.
I wish, media won't put the blame again for "Pilot's Error", and shall appreciate their reflexive actions.
I guess the happenings after she came down, you all know.
We were stuck inside the AXI for more than three hours, were at airport until evening, had brief rest, and using our split duty clause operated 384 and came back around 6am. Haven't read the reports, or the posts, so above mentioned narration was as raw as it happened yesterday afternoon.
Unquote
So just forget about UAE censorship etc, (irrelevant to this thread) and start speculating again. The above account looks credible. If so for some reason engines failed to reach T/O power and crew also failed by retracting the gear.
If this is true the ATC must take the major blame for allowing this aircraft to land when two had aborted. Are they not negligent in letting an aircraft land on a runway end that had a WX issue?
Quote
Yesterday was the hot day for DXB, temperature was 48°C and QNH was 994. 12L was for arrival and 12R for departure.
We (IX-384) were at E2, and we taxied out via P2 and holding at N2 to cross 12L after the arriving aircraft. We saw our A321 PPB or E coming in, and at around 200 feet becoming unstable. Her attitude & wings went up down and immediately she went around. As advised, we cross the runway and proceeded to M2 L3 for further taxi. After that A321, another Emirates' 777 went around. Both the birds did go-around, around 200 feet, so I guess the winds at that height were unfavourable.
We continued our taxi on L4, briefly held at L4B, took a left turn at K for K4 intersection departure. During this time and after those two go arounds, we saw one more EK 777 landing on the runway 12L. We were on Kilo so couldn't see her approach, but we saw her landing at the normal touchdown zone.
When we were turning left on Kilo for K4 departure, and after completion of our checks, we saw her - EK521. They were sightly ahead of the perpendicular position on 12L - with respect to K4 of 12R. She was about 30/40' from the ground with nose up attitude, her attitude confused us thinking if ATC allowed parallel take off from 12L. We were discussing this, and we saw she is struggling to climb (landing dear were down). At a point around 150/200 feet, the struggle to climb stopped, for s brief moment leveled out, and then slowly she came down.
Those chain of events: from 50' feet, to level out, and coming down, looked like a slow motion for me. May be because of the unusual that happened, or, because of the thrust versus weight struggle, or, my perception - I don't know. But that was unreal for me to see 777 struggling and then succumbing to engines' fight with temperature + pressure.
Pilots went around (very low height) post windshear alert and so didn't take the gear up as per the required actions, OR, deliberately left the gear down following a normal go around and would have realised that rate of climb is insufficient. Whatever is the reason - but their decision of keeping the gear down was indeed a remarkable decision. IMO, a boon for all of them.
I wish, media won't put the blame again for "Pilot's Error", and shall appreciate their reflexive actions.
I guess the happenings after she came down, you all know.
We were stuck inside the AXI for more than three hours, were at airport until evening, had brief rest, and using our split duty clause operated 384 and came back around 6am. Haven't read the reports, or the posts, so above mentioned narration was as raw as it happened yesterday afternoon.
Unquote
So just forget about UAE censorship etc, (irrelevant to this thread) and start speculating again. The above account looks credible. If so for some reason engines failed to reach T/O power and crew also failed by retracting the gear.
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On the contrary, what was said by the originator of the post you quoted suggests otherwise "their decision of keeping the gear down " . . & that it (more likely ) collapsed due to the ROD of the subsequent arrival on the runway.
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https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f.../ai933#a8cb431
But the part about the gear is somewhat confusing and seemingly bass ackward
:
Pilots went around (very low height) post windshear alert and so didn't take the gear up as per the required actions, OR, deliberately left the gear down following a normal go around and would have realised that rate of climb is insufficient. Whatever is the reason - but their decision of keeping the gear down was indeed a remarkable decision. IMO, a boon for all of them.
Indeed. Also confusing in the statement; What would be remarkable about a decision to leave the gear down during a regime and manoeuvre/recovery point that doesn't call for the gear to be retracted (W/S recovery or GA until climb is positively established)? That's basic stuff, not remarkable.
A question concerning a recent change to the missed approach procedures in Dubai UAE (OMDB) has raised some interesting points about the 777 in this flight regime: high thrust, low altitude, high pilot workload, and ATC procedures that would seem to be not too well thought out.
Specifically the new procedure introduces a not-above altitude of 1300 ft AMSL after going around from a near sea level Precision or GPS approach minimum (1000 ft missed approach climb).
This new procedure initially tracks straight ahead from the Missed Approach Point (MAP) (that’s a good thing) to DB710 – but requires the crew to level off at 1300 ft AMSL (Not so good). It then requires level flight for approximately 3nm (why? why?)
Low Missed Approach Altitude Restrictions | Flight
Specifically the new procedure introduces a not-above altitude of 1300 ft AMSL after going around from a near sea level Precision or GPS approach minimum (1000 ft missed approach climb).
This new procedure initially tracks straight ahead from the Missed Approach Point (MAP) (that’s a good thing) to DB710 – but requires the crew to level off at 1300 ft AMSL (Not so good). It then requires level flight for approximately 3nm (why? why?)
Low Missed Approach Altitude Restrictions | Flight
Another question I have not seen much covered is what exploded (presumably taking the life of the firefighter) ? The emergency slide seen in the video is most probably simply blown away by the blast. Some have mentioned tires... Could that be the case (even assuming the safety fuses had malfunctioned somehow) ? If not it is a bit of mystery...
At worst you would end up driving the gear up through the top of the wing (cf BA38) and that clearly didn't happen.
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Some have mentioned tires... Could that be the case (even assuming the safety fuses had malfunctioned somehow) ? If not it is a bit of mystery...