Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?
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If I remember correctly the GCAA were widely praised on the UPS 747 crash at Dubai.
I doubt very much any of the big chiefs will try to influence the report. Interesting the F word hasn't been thrown in much either. If both crew have been working their nuts off then this is the stuff the investigators might get the big chiefs worried. Any regular on ME forums know what the score is.
I doubt very much any of the big chiefs will try to influence the report. Interesting the F word hasn't been thrown in much either. If both crew have been working their nuts off then this is the stuff the investigators might get the big chiefs worried. Any regular on ME forums know what the score is.
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(Note a conceptual similarity with SFO 777 auto thrust; it's so much easier to blame the human, demand more training, vigilance, monitoring; opposed to re-engineering the aircraft to help the often resource limited pilot).
I will admit that Korean Air pilots are usually resource limited, however, it should be noted that San Francisco, that day, was clear and a million, and it was a visual approach, for goodness sake's!
I will admit that Korean Air pilots are usually resource limited, however, it should be noted that San Francisco, that day, was clear and a million, and it was a visual approach, for goodness sake's!
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All credit to the local investigators if they produce a truly clear and factual report and all credit to the government if it lets them do so. It would show they have advanced their safety culture towards Just and factually based.
As the first major entirely domestic accident - hull loss by home airline at home - in the UAE, the investigation report and process will be used by others not only to form opinions of EK and DXB operations, but also to rate the UAE regulator and safety authorities.
Mmmmmm, the time line seems to makes sense now after the eye witness Pilot report above......
Hard bounced landing, ATC see it and advise "climb to 4,000' " thinking they were helping ( they were not helping, a very bad time to call the Aircraft which does happen around those parts )
The FO answers this ATC call when he should have been doing other things like MONITORING, they never get TOGA, Gear selected up, they never maintain a positive climb as it's damn hot 49c, perhaps a slight Windshear from the tailwind ( reported 310/11 ) and there you go.........
Ground contact........game over.......
Lucky it's built like a Tank.
Hard bounced landing, ATC see it and advise "climb to 4,000' " thinking they were helping ( they were not helping, a very bad time to call the Aircraft which does happen around those parts )
The FO answers this ATC call when he should have been doing other things like MONITORING, they never get TOGA, Gear selected up, they never maintain a positive climb as it's damn hot 49c, perhaps a slight Windshear from the tailwind ( reported 310/11 ) and there you go.........
Ground contact........game over.......
Lucky it's built like a Tank.
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There is a call by the PM of "go-around thrust set" then "positive climb"
As for the unnecessary calls from ATC, I see it in America with the tower asking for the go-around reason pretty much right away. To all ATC types, don't distract us with unnecessary questions at critical times.
As for the unnecessary calls from ATC, I see it in America with the tower asking for the go-around reason pretty much right away. To all ATC types, don't distract us with unnecessary questions at critical times.
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..... ATC see it and advise "climb to 4,000' " thinking they were helping ( they were not helping, a very bad time to call the Aircraft which does happen around those parts )
Being a DXB regular, I actually think they are amongst the best controllers in the world.
Well I guess that depends on which controller is working on the day.
It's not just DXB, it happens all over Asia as well.
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate.
Please tell me why the tower controller thought it necessary to remind the crew to climb to 4,000' whilst still at such a low level so early in the bounce? It's a standard missed approach for goodness sake, they will climb as published to 3,000' If he requires some non standard procedure then he should have advised them before this point earlier....."in event of missed approach climb to non standard 4,000'" for eg...there was NO RUSH.
However having said that the crew should not have answered.....
So wave your finger at them not me.....
It's not just DXB, it happens all over Asia as well.
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate.
Please tell me why the tower controller thought it necessary to remind the crew to climb to 4,000' whilst still at such a low level so early in the bounce? It's a standard missed approach for goodness sake, they will climb as published to 3,000' If he requires some non standard procedure then he should have advised them before this point earlier....."in event of missed approach climb to non standard 4,000'" for eg...there was NO RUSH.
However having said that the crew should not have answered.....
So wave your finger at them not me.....
You mean like how it is done on the Airbus Glofish? 
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I think Crew, Controllers and ARFF teams did a great job individually and collectively.
Also kudos to FDB857 crew for alerting ATC.
We haven't heard from STC, is that normal for a CEO to stay quiet after an operational incident.
Also kudos to FDB857 crew for alerting ATC.
We haven't heard from STC, is that normal for a CEO to stay quiet after an operational incident.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0SaqWxvdtYo
Full ATC recording - good quality plus all the diversion calls.
Full ATC recording - good quality plus all the diversion calls.
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Any news on how the firefighter died ?
Emirates pilots tried to abort landing when they crashed into Dubai runway | Daily Mail Online
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Automation dependency? With or without auto throttles and FD pitch mode it's the pilot's responsibility to fly the a/c. Automation should be a backup and not the primary driver of flying.
Removing your hand from the throttles to do what, put two hands on the yoke? I've seen 105 lbs women fly with one hand so I don't understand 250 lbs guys using two hands.
If you push the TOGA and they don't work, or don't push the TOGA buttons, or push the throttles forward and but they are set at a lower power setting (ie CLB or CRZ) which drives them backwards, removing your hand from the throttles removes the tactile warning you'd get if you'd have kept your hand on the throttle.
As an industry we've become over-reliant on automation and are teaching, or accepting, habit patterns (ie hand off of thrust levers) that were unacceptable years ago. Maintaining those standards would have saved, or prevented, many incidents.
Removing your hand from the throttles to do what, put two hands on the yoke? I've seen 105 lbs women fly with one hand so I don't understand 250 lbs guys using two hands.
If you push the TOGA and they don't work, or don't push the TOGA buttons, or push the throttles forward and but they are set at a lower power setting (ie CLB or CRZ) which drives them backwards, removing your hand from the throttles removes the tactile warning you'd get if you'd have kept your hand on the throttle.
As an industry we've become over-reliant on automation and are teaching, or accepting, habit patterns (ie hand off of thrust levers) that were unacceptable years ago. Maintaining those standards would have saved, or prevented, many incidents.
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hauled away
https://instagram.com/p/BIrzM5pAQOR/
https://instagram.com/p/BIrzM5pAQOR/
Anyone remember the Ansett B743 in Sydney in the mid 1990s ? Landed with the nose gear retracted, Captain tried to reject after touchdown but was prevented by the F/E as the thrust reverser so had already deployed.
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I wouldn't be too quick to blame automation dependency. The 777 AT system has some well know foibles that are easily overcome and often trained. The situation and the time line will come out eventually. Whether or not we get to see it given the 'sensitivity' of the UAE and the somewhat 'nepotistic' accident and safety investigation system employed remains to be seen.
I certainly don't think any parallels can be drawn with the BA38 as that flight had a long cold soak. Correct me if I'm wrong but the flight from India to Dubai certainly won't have had a cold soak and I'm not sure the fuel would have had time to get below freezing much less close to the freeze point!
Time to wait for the preliminary report methinks.
I certainly don't think any parallels can be drawn with the BA38 as that flight had a long cold soak. Correct me if I'm wrong but the flight from India to Dubai certainly won't have had a cold soak and I'm not sure the fuel would have had time to get below freezing much less close to the freeze point!
Time to wait for the preliminary report methinks.
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It would be very important to determine if was a go around or a wind shear manouver. As you well said, during a wind shear must not be any change in the configuration due to the increase of drag. On the other hand, if it was a go around, before gear up y you have to verify positive climb, that in this case could take a while due to the temperature and aircraft weight.
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GA commanded by tower
I cannot understand why the FC would raise the wheels before the go around was safely established. Unless perhaps they thought it was...