Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?

[removebeforeflight03]

listening to the live atc feed of the accident , I'm getting a little confused if the go around was initiated by the ATC ( recording not very clear ) but the pilot response of climb 4000Ft is very clear . which is pretty much the last conversation , and then after about 10sec you hear a voice saying " did you see that " so that would have been the time of the impact .

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by BuzzBox

The call is similar on the 777 - "Go around, flaps 20".

And it also wouldn't be the first time a go around has been initiated without pressing the TOGA switches, especially by ex-Airbus pilots, although I'm not saying that's the case here. I've seen it happen several times in the simulator: pilot pushes up thrust levers to commence a go around (without pressing TOGA), calls for Flaps 20, positive climb, gear up, meanwhile pilot takes hands off thrust levers and the thrust comes back to idle. Oops...

That is why I started to always say "Go-around, TOGA, Flaps 20". Not exactly SOP but the sim instructor can debrief it later as the only minor issue on the properly flown go-around procedure.

[L-38]

Would be interesting to know what EK's B777 legal temperature operating limitations are as 120f is the normal limitation for most Boeing aircraft. DXB METAR temp as reported was 49c or 120.2f. . . Such limits however, can vary by airline in that they may be extended by Boeing if the airline is willing to pay extra $$ for special engineering (extrapolation) data.

In the USA, many Boeing operators cannot legally operate at temps of 120f or higher. EK I would expect, is in possession of higher limits.

[Pin Head]

or even better on the NG,

Goaround, flaps 15, check thrust

This is what I am doing
This is what I need
This is what I want you to check

[mickjoebill]

So one side of the aircraft is smoking with the engine visible on top of the wing and on the left side no flames or smoke but three perfectly good doors can't be used because the slides were flapping in the wind or blown up against the open door.

With a fire truck and firemen on the ground powerless to speed up the evacuation.

Can't we do better?

Mickjoebill

[fox niner]

Re: 49 degrees oat. Does it still happen that the actual temerature is above 50 degrees, but the official temperature is kept at 49? There seems to be a local law, stating that on days with 50+ degrees, all manual labor is halted. So they warp reality and officially keep it at 49.
Of course engines at go-around thrust don't listen to this artificial temp. They perform according to actual ambient conditions.

[sitigeltfel]

Originally Posted by mickjoebill

So one side of the aircraft is smoking with the engine visible on top of the wing and on the left side no flames or smoke

There was/had been a fire on the Left side

[Xeque]

@sitigeltfel #305 above
Does that flap still look to be set at 30?

[ACMS]

XEQUE--- yes I also look at the Flap position and question it.....doesn't look to be 30, hard to tell?

[BuzzBox]

Xeque:
@sitigeltfel #305 above
Does that flap still look to be set at 30?

It looks more like Flap 20, which is the go around flap setting. It certainly doesn't look like Flap 30.

The following video shows a 777-300ER with Flap 20 at 8:01:
https://youtu.be/Xtwne9UbH8o?t=481

Flap 30 at 8:45:
https://youtu.be/Xtwne9UbH8o?t=525

Of course the Emirates aircraft could have been using Flap 25 for landing, given the conditions.

[blimey]

xyze

Even with what little is known at present, the circumstances of this event would appear to be quite different to those of the SQ incident, most obviously starting with an uncontrolled 'crash' landing and detachment of the starboard engine.

The point is how quickly a fuselage made of aluminium and surrounded by flammable liquid and an uncontained fire can be reduced to a charred shell, even with Dubai RFF going above and beyond the call of duty. Any doubt, get out.

[susier]

MickJoeBill,

further to your comments about evacuation slides being blown around and rendered useless thereby, a similar issue came to my attention with the Korean Air incident at Haneda back on May 27th.

(see http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...-2708-hnd.html)

If (as I believe is recommended in an engine fire scenario) the aircraft is positioned with the wind blowing the fire and smoke away from the fuselage, rather than towards it, this might create a problem with the slides on the 'safe' side.

I don't know if there is an answer to this problem.

[Good Business Sense]

As most on here will know - On a go around, particularly one initiated at a low level, if you don't pitch up at the same time as you apply the thrust then you just accelerate towards the ground at a frightening rate - I've seen it in the sim many times.

I have also seen, sitting at the holding point with a sub 200 foot cloud base, a 747 exit the overcast apparently still on the glideslope with the wheels in transit and very nearly impact the ground as it climbs back into the overcast.

LOW GA + THRUST BEFORE PITCH + TAILWIND COMPONENT/HIGH ROD + AMBIENT CONDITIONS ?

Just a thought

[vapilot2004]

A TWA TriStar was burned out on the ramp at Boston on 19th April 1974, presumably the incident the OP was referring to.

Nice bit of sleuthing Master Reid. Using your date, I was able to discover the probable cause was a kettle warmer left on while she sat parked and empty.

[ACMS]

A CATHAY L1011 EVAC in Tokyo Haneda a long time ago suffered the same problem of the slides blowing in the wind rendering them useless.....

[Airbuspilot72]

Heard that all the crew of EK521 is put up in a hotel so that they cannot talk to media or any one else.

Is this true....???????

[5milesbaby]

UK news have several interviews from passengers who all speak very good English and all confirm that there was no cabin call pre-warning them before crashing.

[Desertweasel]

Originally Posted by Airbuspilot72

Heard that all the crew of EK521 is put up in a hotel so that they cannot talk to media or any one else.

Is this true....???????

This is SOP

[Less Hair]

Do we need slides that are better windproofed? In most cases any winds will blow from the nose to the tail so just some minor stabilization (like a rope or some inflatable "anchor" or similar) might make more evacuations slides available?

[pilotguy1222]

Originally Posted by Wirbelsturm

F20 Gear down landing rate of climb for 225T at 49 degrees gives you approx 390fpm climb at sea level.

Things get interesting if you forget to go from F30 to F20 in the Go-Around.

F30 Gear down landing rate of climb at 225T at 49 degrees gives you approx minus 190fpm at sea level!

Note, all these figures are for SINGLE ENGINE.

Performance with both engines even at 49 degrees is not an issue.


No airport will tell you you can't land with an emergency. They may 'suggest' other options but, as Captain, it's your choice.

Edited to add that these are for the 777-300 GE115. My operator doesn't have the straight 300 so willing to be corrected

This was a RR powered 777.


The radio call from tower for the GA, and the reply from the PM, does not mean that the GA was instructed by the tower. The ATC controller was most likely paying attention and rather than wait for the call from EK521, he was proactive and eliminated a 3rd transmission on tower's freq.
The call to tell tower about a GA is pretty low on my priority list, especially in close proximity to the runway.

While quiet, you can hear the CA command the evac in the evac video. Sounded SOP to me.