Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?
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It is a clear instruction FROM ATC 'Emirates 521 go around climb 4000' ....or did i miss hear it ? did the tower see something wrong with the gear ?
Last edited by camel; 4th Aug 2016 at 02:10.
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Passengers evacuated from an Emirates flight say that minutes before the flight crash-landed at Dubai airport, the pilot made an announcement that he needed to make an emergency landing.
Iype Vallikadan, a reporter from Indian newspaper "Mathrubhumi News," says the passengers said the pilot spoke to them as the plane neared Dubai on Wednesday, saying there was a problem with the landing gear and that he would make an emergency landing.
Iype Vallikadan, a reporter from Indian newspaper "Mathrubhumi News," says the passengers said the pilot spoke to them as the plane neared Dubai on Wednesday, saying there was a problem with the landing gear and that he would make an emergency landing.
Of course, with the news cycle, the item morphed into:
A passenger, Iype Vallikadan, said the pilot had announced there was a problem with the landing gear as the plane neared Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, and he would make an emergency landing, the Associated Press reported.
Also, a UK media source says the plane 'caught fire in mid-air' and the captain 'sent out and [sic] emergency signal':
British passengers were caught up in mid-air terror after a Emirates airline plane caught fire in mid-air and dramatically crash-landed at Dubai International Airport.
Twenty-four Brits were among the 300 passengers on board the Boeing 777-300 jet when it smashed down onto the runway at around 1pm local time (10am UK time).
Miraculously, no-one was seriously hurt in the crash and passengers were evacuated just minutes before the plane exploded into flames.
The three-hour flight took off from Trivandrum International Airport in India at around 6am UK time before the captain is understood to have sent out and emergency signal shortly before the plane was due to land.
Eye-witnesses described seeing huge plumes of smoke rising from the plane before it crashed down onto the runway.
Twenty-four Brits were among the 300 passengers on board the Boeing 777-300 jet when it smashed down onto the runway at around 1pm local time (10am UK time).
Miraculously, no-one was seriously hurt in the crash and passengers were evacuated just minutes before the plane exploded into flames.
The three-hour flight took off from Trivandrum International Airport in India at around 6am UK time before the captain is understood to have sent out and emergency signal shortly before the plane was due to land.
Eye-witnesses described seeing huge plumes of smoke rising from the plane before it crashed down onto the runway.
And, this early report here:
I'm wondering if the initial touchdown did so much damage that the plane, perhaps fortuitously in this case, was unable to do a two engine go around? The Air Canada 621 crash in 1970 in YYZ comes to mind.
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I recall seeing as my flight taxied in at Boston around 40 years ago, a TWA L1011 in much the same state as today's B777, except that it was on its own wheels. Does anyone know about the causes of that incident and if there are any similarities to, or contrasts with, the EK happening?
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" Design intent is that in an overload situation, the strut will fail in such a way that the engine goes over the wing instead of under, without rupturing the fuel tank. However that's all done by analysis - how it works in the real world will be interesting to find out."
Thank you tdracer. And as I recall- there is about a 1 foot on either side of the strut assembly which is a DRY BAY ( without fuel ) for the same reason. And as you say and I mentioned in post 181 - the' normal' design assumes the plane is in flight re the linkage and fuse pins. But hitting the ground at an angle to travel can screw up the best of 'what if' design criteria.
Thank you tdracer. And as I recall- there is about a 1 foot on either side of the strut assembly which is a DRY BAY ( without fuel ) for the same reason. And as you say and I mentioned in post 181 - the' normal' design assumes the plane is in flight re the linkage and fuse pins. But hitting the ground at an angle to travel can screw up the best of 'what if' design criteria.
Last edited by CONSO; 4th Aug 2016 at 02:03. Reason: typos
Design intent is that in an overload situation, the strut will fail in such a way that the engine goes over the wing instead of under, without rupturing the fuel tank. However that's all done by analysis - how it works in the real world will be interesting to find out.
That works well in flight where air lift loads on the inlet are significant, but I would think that ground friction loads against the nacelle would stop the engine so the wing would try to overrun it. At any rate no complaints about the design when the aircraft intersects something other than air
just trying to understand the dings and bangs of this incident
tdracer:
Regarding windshear - many airports in the US have ground based windshear detection systems (Doppler radar based, IIRC) so ATC can warn approaching aircraft or even temporarily close down a runway. Why wouldn't a major airport like Dubai have a similar system?
Regarding windshear - many airports in the US have ground based windshear detection systems (Doppler radar based, IIRC) so ATC can warn approaching aircraft or even temporarily close down a runway. Why wouldn't a major airport like Dubai have a similar system?
Heard on the news from a pax that only 1 door was available for exit. Is this true? Why would every door but 1 be blocked?
Two slides were not used on left hand side, both apparently due to the effect of wind blowing them upwards.
Mickjoebill
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oldeberon,
Dubai airport is very constrained due to airspace. The regional ATC is bounded by Iran and Oman, and flights inbound from that direction only have a 6 minute timeframe to show up on the screens, so all of that traffic has a very short notification time to be integrated by ATC. The airspace issues with DWC, which shares a hold pattern further complicates the issues.
Depending, if something is in the way, they will remove it
In addition, there are very narrow corridors due to military airspace, tall structures, other Countries, and other restricted zones.
Dubai airport is very constrained due to airspace. The regional ATC is bounded by Iran and Oman, and flights inbound from that direction only have a 6 minute timeframe to show up on the screens, so all of that traffic has a very short notification time to be integrated by ATC. The airspace issues with DWC, which shares a hold pattern further complicates the issues.
Depending, if something is in the way, they will remove it
In addition, there are very narrow corridors due to military airspace, tall structures, other Countries, and other restricted zones.
That works well in flight where air lift loads on the inlet are significant, but I would think that ground friction loads against the nacelle would stop the engine so the wing would try to overrun it. At any rate no complaints about the design when the aircraft intersects something other than air
Lomapaseo, this is somewhat out of my area of expertise (I've never worked structures), but my understanding is one of the design scenarios is an overload due to a wheels up landing - you want the engine to go up and over rather than under for obvious reasons. However CONSO is right - without knowing the exact angle and speed of impact it would be near impossible to get it to work 100%. Oh, and CONSO is also correct about the 'dry bay' in the area of the wing where the strut attaches (also helpful for uncontained engine failures).
BuzzBox, thanks for the clarification - I was unfamiliar with the limitations of the Doppler based windshear system in the desert.
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CONFIG GEAR also comes on if flaps are in the landing position (F25 or F30) with the gear up. The EGPWS will also give you are warning close to the ground and not configured.
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Even with what little is known at present, the circumstances of this event would appear to be quite different to those of the SQ incident, most obviously starting with an uncontrolled 'crash' landing and detachment of the starboard engine.
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If they tried to go around because of a windshear warning, they should have left the gear down.
If they tried to go around because of a windshear not strong enough to trigger a warning, most likely a normal goaround would be the way.
This was a flight from Thiruvanantapuram. Good chance more than 200 of the passengers spoke little or no English. Getting them off the aircraft in a few minutes is fantastic! Never mind the hand luggage. It would have been near impossible to get that message through.
One thing puzzles me. The METAR winds I have seen are in no way strong enough to push a slide out of position.
It will be intersting to see what Emitrates will do with the pilots.
The Aussie first officer is lucky to have a local captain in this accident. Difficult to fire just one of them.
Unless this accident was due to the captains/crews actions.
If they tried to go around because of a windshear not strong enough to trigger a warning, most likely a normal goaround would be the way.
This was a flight from Thiruvanantapuram. Good chance more than 200 of the passengers spoke little or no English. Getting them off the aircraft in a few minutes is fantastic! Never mind the hand luggage. It would have been near impossible to get that message through.
One thing puzzles me. The METAR winds I have seen are in no way strong enough to push a slide out of position.
It will be intersting to see what Emitrates will do with the pilots.
The Aussie first officer is lucky to have a local captain in this accident. Difficult to fire just one of them.
Unless this accident was due to the captains/crews actions.
No doubt they will both be ordered to resign.
No different to the Melbourne incident. Crew flown back to Emirates HQ following day....Handed pre prepared 'resignation letters'.....Goodnight Irene.
They don't muck about.
No different to the Melbourne incident. Crew flown back to Emirates HQ following day....Handed pre prepared 'resignation letters'.....Goodnight Irene.
They don't muck about.
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Cannot belief the "wheels-up approach" angle - so the crew ignored the GPWS warning regarding gear position till near touchdown? Configuration warning with flap 30 selected - No ways ....
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Not a 777 pilot, but on the type I fly the call is 'go around, set flaps'.
Wouldn't be the first time that a pilot raised the gear when he'd been asked to raise the flaps, would it?
Wouldn't be the first time that a pilot raised the gear when he'd been asked to raise the flaps, would it?
When reading this, is anyone else getting a booking.com advert for "926 properties in Dubai. Search now".
FYI FAR 25.561b (Crashworthiness) requires
"For equipment, cargo in the passenger compartments and any other large masses, the following apply:
(1) Except as provided in paragraph(c)(2) of this section, these items must be positioned so that if they break loose, they will be unlikely to:
(i) Cause direct injury to occupants;
(ii) Penetrate fuel tanks or lines or cause fire or explosion hazard by damage to adjacent systems; or
(iii) Nullify any of the escape facilities provided for use after an emergency landing."
Applies to wing mounted engines and is usually met by fuse links in conjunction with a range of break-away scenarios.
FYI FAR 25.561b (Crashworthiness) requires
"For equipment, cargo in the passenger compartments and any other large masses, the following apply:
(1) Except as provided in paragraph(c)(2) of this section, these items must be positioned so that if they break loose, they will be unlikely to:
(i) Cause direct injury to occupants;
(ii) Penetrate fuel tanks or lines or cause fire or explosion hazard by damage to adjacent systems; or
(iii) Nullify any of the escape facilities provided for use after an emergency landing."
Applies to wing mounted engines and is usually met by fuse links in conjunction with a range of break-away scenarios.
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There has been an incident in a B777 where the F/O who was the handling pilot, disconnected the Autothrottle instead of pressing the TOGA switch when commencing the Go Around. The Autothrottle button is located on the side of each thrust lever on the B777, the TOGA switches are located forward of each thrust lever. Not only did the thrust not automatically advance to GA, but the F/D's continued in the Approach mode instead of pitching up. Not saying this is what happened here but it is a more likely scenario for causing the aircraft to strike the runway while the gear was retracting. Inconceivable in a B777 that the crew can land with the gear retracted and not know about it.
Not a 777 pilot, but on the type I fly the call is 'go around, set flaps'.
Wouldn't be the first time that a pilot raised the gear when he'd been asked to raise the flaps, would it?
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Didn't they take some procedural shortcut in entering weight and balance data and not do the required crosscheck?
U.S. airlines often fire pilots after an accident if they find out they weren't doing their jobs, e.g. checklists and procedures. But, the union sometimes quietly gets their jobs back as with (I think) at least one of the pilots from the Southwest Burbank crash years ago.
I realize the EK pilots don't pay union dues.