Emirates B777 gear collapse @ DXB?
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Unworry.....
Its the fact that the UAE authorities see "publishing news" as "abusing social media".
And "said abuse", is "punishable under law".
In the words of Cyndi Lauper "True Colours" !
Its the fact that the UAE authorities see "publishing news" as "abusing social media".
And "said abuse", is "punishable under law".
In the words of Cyndi Lauper "True Colours" !
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FCeng84 wrote:
"The money question for me is did they have the gear down at any time during this approach? The data Emirates has must address this. Let's hear if they simply came in without extending gear or had the gear down and decided to pull it up at some point."
Your question would simply be answered with a (surely exists in these days of universal video surveillance) FULL (emphasize full) record of the 777 approaching/first take-land/bounce/defective run and etc.
Showing these images could save us of a lot of speculation and "ifs" and -certainly- would clarify a good percentage of the incident-accident in the initial moments. The further hull lose is another chapter.
"The money question for me is did they have the gear down at any time during this approach? The data Emirates has must address this. Let's hear if they simply came in without extending gear or had the gear down and decided to pull it up at some point."
Your question would simply be answered with a (surely exists in these days of universal video surveillance) FULL (emphasize full) record of the 777 approaching/first take-land/bounce/defective run and etc.
Showing these images could save us of a lot of speculation and "ifs" and -certainly- would clarify a good percentage of the incident-accident in the initial moments. The further hull lose is another chapter.
Last edited by guadaMB; 6th Aug 2016 at 09:25. Reason: typo
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Criticism of Middle East Arabic airlines on this or other sites may well be met by legal action folks.
It would be nice to see them try. Under which law would they prosecute? Libel in the UK perhaps (takes about 20 years..). Even under their own legal system it would be hard (on paper at least)
It would be nice to see them try. Under which law would they prosecute? Libel in the UK perhaps (takes about 20 years..). Even under their own legal system it would be hard (on paper at least)
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Before you call this a possible massive cockup, you need to look at the rosters for the two pilots, and how many hours they have been flying monthly for the last years, how many (or few) days off/leave they have had, night duties, etc.
EK management is sitting on a big box full of smelly rosters.
If it is legal, it doesn't mean it's safe.
EK management is sitting on a big box full of smelly rosters.
If it is legal, it doesn't mean it's safe.
Problem EK have got is by making themselves a global brand by sponsoring everything in sight and taking a very high profile when it suits them is that if you then have a serious accident /crash it is even more global news than many other incidents.
While they can control the UAE they cannot do the same everywhere, sure they can buy off a few media outlets with their money but not everyone and then the story shifts from -why did this happen to what does EK have to hide
While they can control the UAE they cannot do the same everywhere, sure they can buy off a few media outlets with their money but not everyone and then the story shifts from -why did this happen to what does EK have to hide
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my money would be on gear down and locked on short finals. Reasons: Pilot would not continue to land if he knew he had a gear problem. Twr has full view not many metres away to his left . He would not give landing clearance without actually looking at aircraft as he said it. He certainly wouldnt give landing clearance if he saw the gear wasnt down. He didnt appear to have a high workload at that point, just 521 and 565 landing, FDB taxiing etc. We are not even sure whether there was an aircraft immediately ahead of 521 who had to clear the runway before Twr could issue landing clearance to 521.
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ATC would not know about the gear, and while ATC in DXB is pretty good, I very much doubt they're checking gear through binoculars (where does?) as they're just too busy with the traffic flow.
However, for the pilots to omit the gear selection, forget the checklist (EICAS), miss the GPWS gear warning and not notice that the aircraft was exceptionally slippery on late finals seems somewhat unlikely. Let's stop the ridiculous assumptions and accusations, shall we?
However, for the pilots to omit the gear selection, forget the checklist (EICAS), miss the GPWS gear warning and not notice that the aircraft was exceptionally slippery on late finals seems somewhat unlikely. Let's stop the ridiculous assumptions and accusations, shall we?
My view is that if this was a balked landing, spool up time is the biggest likely issue. With the thrust in idle, and the notoriously long spool time on the RR engines, an attempt to rotate for the go around with thrust wandering up from idle would be "interesting".
Can anyone tell me at what point the EECs go from approach to intermediate or minimum idle as all my FCOM says is "after touchdown"? If the engines had gone to a lower idle the difficulty could be greatly exacerbated.
Can anyone tell me at what point the EECs go from approach to intermediate or minimum idle as all my FCOM says is "after touchdown"? If the engines had gone to a lower idle the difficulty could be greatly exacerbated.
Touching down during any of the above scenarios due to long spool-up time or W/S with the gear down and locked produces a much different outcome than if they are not. If the auto thrust settings are fussing things up on a GA for whatever reason you can still revert to manually getting whatever you need as long as you're rolling, not sliding, down the runway.
Last edited by PukinDog; 6th Aug 2016 at 12:18.
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Plus...
my money would be on gear down and locked on short finals. Reasons: Pilot would not continue to land if he knew he had a gear problem. Twr has full view not many metres away to his left . He would not give landing clearance without actually looking at aircraft as he said it. He certainly wouldnt give landing clearance if he saw the gear wasnt down. He didnt appear to have a high workload at that point, just 521 and 565 landing, FDB taxiing etc. We are not even sure whether there was an aircraft immediately ahead of 521 who had to clear the runway before Twr could issue landing clearance to 521.
To me it looks like bounced landing, GA full thrust (did they disengage AT?), and curiously, wheels up way too early. The Airbus guidance is better than Boeing's in this respect: maintain the same pitch (to avoid T/S), expect a second bounce, and so keep the wheels down until the GA profile is properly established. Of course if WS was suspected, the wheels should have stayed down anyway.
AB, I agree ... the *eyeroll* was meant to denote sarcasm.
Pictures will eventually make their way out regardless and once you see just where along the runway the tail struck, you will no doubt form your own conclusions
Pictures will eventually make their way out regardless and once you see just where along the runway the tail struck, you will no doubt form your own conclusions
Last edited by unworry; 6th Aug 2016 at 14:31.
Pictures will eventually make there way out regardless and once you see just where along the runway the tail struck, you will no doubt form your own conclusions
If some aircraft spotter was specifically shooting photos or videos of this aircraft shortly prior to landing, and maybe even through the unfolding incident, I feel sure those images would have been out 'in the wild' already. But I don't suppose a nation such as the UAE takes too kindly to folk with long-lens cameras sitting out in the open around airport boundaries?
That means the only other likely source of pre-accident/unfolding imagery is going to be surveillance video (astonishlingly, in this digital age, usually grainy and indistinct) from security cameras on or near the airport. The UAE are almost certainly already requisitioning all such likely candidate footage, so we are very unlikely to ever see that stuff in the public domain.
The very limited video we have already seen of the latter stages and aftermath of the accident seem to have come from phone cameras, initiated when witnesses became aware something had already gone awry. The last few seconds of the aircraft sliding to a halt are all that has been seen of the aircraft actually in motion. I would be curious to know if anyone can actually determine how long after the aircraft came to a standstill that the explosion occurred - I suspect it was some notable time after evacuation had been completed.
So, expecting to see further video or photography of the late stages of this aircraft's arrival at Dubai is, I think, very unlikely. The unfortunate result of that is the speculation being developed here, about whether or not the gear was down before landing, will just continue. Reach for the chill pills, people!
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Maybe (if true) the closest thing to a photo that has become available ?
Quote....a pilot who was waiting on a taxiway to take off for India from Dubai and would have entered the runway after a few planes, including EK-521, would have landed and vacated the runway. "She (EK-521) was about 30/40 (ft) from the ground with nose-up attitude. Her attitude confused us. We were discussing this, and we saw she is struggling to climb (landing gear were down). At a point, the struggle to climb stopped, for a brief moment levelled out, and then slowly she came down," the pilot said in a WhatsApp to a group of pilots....unquote.
Possibly that was EK572 to CCU ?
Sudden change in wind pattern led to Emirates jet's crash-landing - Times of India
Quote....a pilot who was waiting on a taxiway to take off for India from Dubai and would have entered the runway after a few planes, including EK-521, would have landed and vacated the runway. "She (EK-521) was about 30/40 (ft) from the ground with nose-up attitude. Her attitude confused us. We were discussing this, and we saw she is struggling to climb (landing gear were down). At a point, the struggle to climb stopped, for a brief moment levelled out, and then slowly she came down," the pilot said in a WhatsApp to a group of pilots....unquote.
Possibly that was EK572 to CCU ?
Sudden change in wind pattern led to Emirates jet's crash-landing - Times of India
Found this video, which provides an excellent overview of the crash site. You can clearly observe how the plane ended up. Footage was shot by a pax from a departing a/c.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfgQyrv282E
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfgQyrv282E
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The answer lies in the fact that the aircraft finished at the end of the runway. One will assume that the original touch down point was on the numbers so it's reasonable to assume that whatever happened took this ammount of time and distance so any theories have to fit into a very specific time period and distance. If it had landed wheels up then would it have slid that distance or if it bounced and attempted a GA could it have finished in this position?
If anyone could calculate the slide distance then the distance from planned touchdown to actual touchdown could be calculated and any of our theories would have to fit within this window.
If anyone could calculate the slide distance then the distance from planned touchdown to actual touchdown could be calculated and any of our theories would have to fit within this window.
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Video from firefighter extracting the the wrecked tail & transporting it away from the runway before continuing to sedate more smoke from the cabin/cargo section of the 777
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=710_1470489298
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=710_1470489298
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Does the AFDS work the same on the 777 as on the 737 for go-arounds? You press TOGA, flight director gives you pitch and roll guidance while thrust levers advance to go-around thrust if A/T were engaged? How about if A/T was not engaged, just flight director pitch guidance and thrust levers stay where they are? As the FO seems to be quick on the PTT reading back go-around instructions, the Cpt. might have been quick putting both hands on the yoke, thrust levers are closed, with nobody checking thrust. Would explain the lack of climb. Must be more to it than just Rolls Royce engines being slow to spool up and high OAT.